Ollie Watkins

[Don_Simon]

14 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

People may whinge , but his the only striker to hit double figures last 2 seasons in row for us 

This is the Gabby argument over, and over and again.

"Gabby's a legend because he's our top Premier League Goalscorer". Yeah mate, he scored 60 goals in six million appearances. 

As for Ollie, of, ****, course he's the only striker to score double figures in last two seasons. He's the only one we have at the club who has been here two seasons, Keinan doesn't count. I think Ollie has regressed. But he has some credit left in the bank from season one. If he's still shit after 10 games though, it's the bench for you my friend.

[Jas10]

38 minutes ago, TRO said:

The common denominator is.......Jack Grealish.

[Adam2003]

2 hours ago, allani said:

True but those two players both had 30 PL goal contributions each (goals and assists).  Six other players had 20 or more goal contributions.  13 other players (at least) managed 15 goal contributions (I've only been able to base the stats on the top 25 scorers in the PL last season).  Of the top 25 goals scorers last season only Emile Smith Rowe had fewer overall goal contributions and he played a lot fewer minutes overall than Ollie did.  If Ollie was setting up other players to score - we'd be less worried / preoccupied by his actual scoring record.  However, the point is that Ollie basically has his head down too often to spot others and is monumentally greedy.  Which is not a problem IF you are scoring.

 

Good point this. I dismiss a lot of the moaning about Watkins as ill-informed nonsense - he has a PL record of better than 1 in 3, has played his way into the England squad, etc etc - and his hard work speaks for itself, but you’re absolutely right that I’d like to see him with more assists. That’s a gap that would make a big difference - I think if he had the same goalscoring record as now but a few more of the shots he launches right into a blocking defender were turned into setting someone else up, people would be happier.

[david-avfc]

33 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

This is the Gabby argument over, and over and again.

"Gabby's a legend because he's our top Premier League Goalscorer". Yeah mate, he scored 60 goals in six million appearances. 

As for Ollie, of, ****, course he's the only striker to score double figures in last two seasons. He's the only one we have at the club who has been here two seasons, Keinan doesn't count. I think Ollie has regressed. But he has some credit left in the bank from season one. If he's still shit after 10 games though, it's the bench for you my friend.

If he scored 14 goals would you consider that a good return?

That’s how many league goals he scored in his first season, so to me he should be able to replicate that providing we don’t waste him in a crap set up which doesn’t suit him (i.e. 2 up front). Personally if he hit around that figure I would see that as a good return. 

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

This is the Gabby argument over, and over and again.

"Gabby's a legend  because  he's our top Premier League Goalscorer". Yeah mate, he scored 60 goals in six million appearances. 

As for Ollie, of, ****, course he's the only striker to score double figures in last two seasons. He's the only one we have at the club who has been here two seasons, Keinan doesn't count. I think Ollie has regressed. But he has some credit left in the bank from season one. If he's still shit after 10 games though, it's the bench for you my friend.

Thats tickled me, truism's usually do.....he scored 13 goals in his his last 5 seasons for us and we paid him handsomely for the privilige......That mansion he has on Roman Road.....is well deserved, isn't it.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

39 minutes ago, Don_Simon said:

This is the Gabby argument over, and over and again.

"Gabby's a legend because he's our top Premier League Goalscorer". Yeah mate, he scored 60 goals in six million appearances. 

As for Ollie, of, ****, course he's the only striker to score double figures in last two seasons. He's the only one we have at the club who has been here two seasons, Keinan doesn't count. I think Ollie has regressed. But he has some credit left in the bank from season one. If he's still shit after 10 games though, it's the bench for you my friend.

I grew up absolutely loving Gabby so I have no unbiased argument to give .

So many goosebumps moments for me.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, david-avfc said:

If he scored 14 goals would you consider that a good return?

That’s how many league goals he scored in his first season, so to me he should be able to replicate that providing we don’t waste him in a crap set up which doesn’t suit him (i.e. 2 up front). Personally if he hit around that figure I would see that as a good return. 

There are strikers that have gone to so many clubs, Like Defoe and Crouch and still score goals....what systems suit them?

You adapt....thats what good front men do.

Ollie has to adapt.

Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I grew up absolutely loving Gabby so I have no unbiased argument to give .

So many goosebumps moments for me.

The 3 goals in 3 seasons,(38 games) created my bias.

[PaulC]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

Jacks involvement in the majority of his goals was significant.

Yes he did but I think we have players here now that will create plenty of chances for him so he needs to kick on and at least equal that 14 goals. Big season for Ollie with the world cup looming as well. 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Yes he did but I think we have players here now that will create plenty of chances for him so he needs to kick on and at least equal that 14 goals. Big season for Ollie with the world cup looming as well. 

I agree, we do have players with good talent......but I am still unsure, we have players who can STAY on the ball like Jack....He give his mates thinking time, with his composure.

Its like a hot potato at times, and its hard to keep possession, when its like that...we give it away (still) so easily and it plays the opposition back in.

Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I agree, we do have players with good talent......but I am still unsure, we have players who can STAY on the ball like Jack....He give his mates thinking time, with his composure.

Its like a hot potato at times, and its hard to keep possession, when its like that...we give it away (still) so easily and it plays the opposition back in.

Players as good as Jack cost £100m.

Gerrard needs to figure it out without £100m players. Just like Dean Smith apparently had to.

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Players as good as Jack cost £100m.

Gerrard needs to figure it out without £100m players. Just like Dean Smith apparently had to.

Players better than Jack have cost less too.....Man City, wanted to pay that, so they did, doesn't mean that is his true market value.

Are you suggesting Jack is the only one that can do it?......Son can and he cost Spurs c£35 mill....I can think of many that can, in and around that purchase price of £35 mill.

you seem to be taking the point too literally. and looking for adverse.

Dean Smith and Steven Gerrard had/has to manage the team through different periods with different expectations, its not fair to compare too closely.....The Zone SG is chartering requires more money and more global presence from the manager.

We better get back on topic......

Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO

[Guest av1]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

Players better than Jack have cost less too.....Man City, wanted to pay that, so they did, doesn't mean that is his true market value.

Are you suggesting Jack is the only one that can do it?......Son can and he cost Spurs c£35 mill....I can think of many that can, in and around that purchase price of £35 mill.

you seem to be taking the point too literally. and looking for adverse.

Dean Smith and Steven Gerrard had/has to manage the team through different periods with different expectations, its not fair to compare too closely.....The Zone SG is chartering requires more money and more global presence from the manager.

I agree with this. 
 

What I would say though is that the big clubs can get better deals in terms of transfer fees for top players. Especially when it comes to buy out clauses or players entering the final stages of a contract. 
 

By that I mean City have just signed Haaland for £50 odd million and Alverez for about £15m. Arsenal signed Jesus for about £40m and so on. I’d hazard a guess that Aston Villa could have afforded all of those guys (transfer fees if not wages), but none of them would have had any interest in coming. 
 

So we’re trying to shop a couple of tiers down, the trouble is to get champions league quality to come here, you tend to pay over the odds, certainly on wages. It’s why I think the step up from mid table to anywhere near the top is just so tough. 
 

 

[Tomaszk]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

The Zone SG is chartering requires more money and more global presence from the manager.

Does it? Interesting. What a lucky boy he is that he gets to sign a load of £25m players then.

I think it requires some coaching and managerial ability above all else. Why we appointed someone who could go either way is perplexing.

If he doesn't do the business we'll surely all have to agree appointing him was a massive waste of time. Which has been the main point of frustration from the moment he walked in the door.

[sne]

4 minutes ago, av1 said:

I agree with this. 
 

What I would say though is that the big clubs can get better deals in terms of transfer fees for top players. Especially when it comes to buy out clauses or players entering the final stages of a contract. 
 

By that I mean City have just signed Haaland for £50 odd million and Alverez for about £15m. Arsenal signed Jesus for about £40m and so on. I’d hazard a guess that Aston Villa could have afforded all of those guys (transfer fees if not wages), but none of them would have had any interest in coming. 
 

So we’re trying to shop a couple of tiers down, the trouble is to get champions league quality to come here, you tend to pay over the odds, certainly on wages. It’s why I think the step up from mid table to anywhere near the top is just so tough. 
 

 

Those two both had release clauses that were triggered.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, av1 said:

I agree with this. 
 

What I would say though is that the big clubs can get better deals in terms of transfer fees for top players. Especially when it comes to buy out clauses or players entering the final stages of a contract. 
 

By that I mean City have just signed Haaland for £50 odd million and Alverez for about £15m. Arsenal signed Jesus for about £40m and so on. I’d hazard a guess that Aston Villa could have afforded all of those guys (transfer fees if not wages), but none of them would have had any interest in coming. 
 

So we’re trying to shop a couple of tiers down, the trouble is to get champions league quality to come here, you tend to pay over the odds, certainly on wages. It’s why I think the step up from mid table to anywhere near the top is just so tough. 
 

 

Spot on point.

Its the major challenge we have hence SG is PERSONALLY selling the dream/ ambition the club has to prospects.....also the main question from prospective recruits (to another party) is....what if SG leaves?...well he ,himself can answer that, with a one on one.

as you say.........We are trying to buy players for another level.....that is a tricky challenge......With Ollie, we was just buying, below our level.

ps ....we better get back on topic.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO

[rbcuk]

I really don’t want to see watkins as a starter this season, sick of seeing him take 5 touches to control a ball, has to be ings starting as he anticipates a through ball from the likes of coutinho, whilst watkins is always flat footed for these 

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Does it? Interesting. What a lucky boy he is that he gets to sign a load of £25m players then.

I think it requires some coaching and managerial ability above all else. Why we appointed someone who could go either way is perplexing.

If he doesn't do the business we'll surely all have to agree appointing him was a massive waste of time. Which has been the main point of frustration from the moment he walked in the door.

Yes.

just a gentle reminder....we are in the Ollie watkins thread.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

I really don’t want to see watkins as a starter this season, sick of seeing him take 5 touches to control a ball, has to be ings starting as he anticipates a through ball from the likes of coutinho, whilst watkins is always flat footed for these 

Its really, really awkward for me.....because I like the player.

My heart is with him

my head says you are right and other than scoring, his game still needs to improve....his first touch is random and decision making is questionable....his positioning also leaves himself a lot to do. maybe a more predatory view from him, would help.

I think the main consideration, we have to make is......where are we taking these players, like Ollie (who we bought from a lower club at the time) with our expectations? ( the club and us).....maybe they have met their ceiling.

Edited July 24, 2022 by TRO

[VillanousOne]

I agree he often plays more like a winger than a striker and I know some on here sh*t the bed when people suggest him playing there, I think most can agree winger/wide forward or not, his strengths are running the channels. The issue has always been if you stick two defenders on him, he is easy to track and shut down, especially if no other forwards are providing any options (or Gresford).

But if we play Bailey as a wide fwd as well as allowing Watkins to drift wide on the left then we could do some teams a lot of damage and we have Buendia and Phil to supply the balls into both.