nick76 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 12 minutes ago, Steero113 said: Agree with your post mate but don't compare with Salah who firstly has been the best in the world for 6 months now and plays for the second highest scoring team in Europe. Watkins would likely have 30+ goals in that team. Why? It gives a view against the best in the competition. Limiting it to just English strikers is disingenuous to the viewer because you can make anything look good if you exclude factors that make your stat look worse. I understand your point that he probably would’ve scored more in a better team but that is the same for Kane, Vardy, Ings, Bamford, Calvert-Lewin. Ollie’s an excellent all round striker, he’s not a clinical finisher like the best but he’s a good finisher and his other attributes are amongst the best. This season he’s been poor, the last few games though have seen some of the old Ollie which is phenomenal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 16 hours ago, nick76 said: Just trying to think who the other top English strikers are as that sounds an impressive stat but is it? Outside of Kane, Vardy and Ollie Tammy doesn’t count because he’s overseas but has 19 total league goals for part player at Chelsea and now full at Roma, in 49 combined league appearances to Ollie’s 21 in 60 appearances. Then there is discussion on minutes, small sub appearances, playing out wide and also strength of team played for. Calvert-Lewin, 19 league goals in 41 appearances Danny Ings, 17 league goals in 49 appearances Then you have others like Bamford and co. I think this stat is fairly standard to be honest but framed very positively. It would be interesting on goals per minute because appearances can be deceptive. We just don’t have the depth in quality English strikers really, we (Villa) just have two of the best ones around in Ollie and Danny. Just as a comparison though, Mo Salah has 41 league goals in the same period! Since the start of last season, 1- Jesse Lingard-148 minutes per goal 2- Harry Kane-159 minutes per goal 3- Jamie Vardy-170 minutes per goal 4- Tammy Abraham=173 minutes per goal 5- Callum Wilson-182 minutes per goal 6- Patrick Bamford-186 minutes per goal 7- Dominic Calvert-Lewin-190 minutes per goal 8- Phil Foden-196 minutes per goal 9- Raheem Sterling-205 minutes per goal 10- Danny Ings-210 minutes per goal 11- Ivan Toney-223 minutes per goal 12- Billy Sharp-243 minutes per goal 13- Danny Welbeck-247 minutes per goal 14- Ollie Watkins-249 minutes per goal 15- Eddie Nketiah-253 minutes per goal 15-Marcus Rashford-253 minutes per goal 17- Mason Greenwood-259 minutes per goal 18- Keinan Davis-277 minutes per goal 19- Jarrod Bowen-309 minutes per goal 20- Demarai Gray-314 minutes per goal 21- Andy Caroll-384 minutes per goal 22- Jack Harrison-388 minutes per goal 23- Joe Gelhardt-415 minutes per goal 24- Jack Grealish(he's played up top for City for a couple of games)-443 minutes per goal 25- Ademola Lookman-488 minutes per goal 26- Dwight Gayle-534 minutes per goal 27- Ashley Barnes-586 minutes per goal 28- Adam Armstrong-600 minutes per goal 29- Theo Walcott-670 minutes per goal 30- Jay Rodriguez-1090 minutes per goal 31- Karlan Grant-1133 minutes per goal 32- Nathan Redmond-1540 minutes per goal I'm being very loose in what I consider a striker here but I don't think it matter if a few wingers get included anyway. Nowadays wingers are expected to contribute to goal scoring just as much as strikers are. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 14 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Since the start of last season, 1- Jesse Lingard-148 minutes per goal 2- Harry Kane-159 minutes per goal 3- Jamie Vardy-170 minutes per goal 4- Tammy Abraham=173 minutes per goal 5- Callum Wilson-182 minutes per goal 6- Patrick Bamford-186 minutes per goal 7- Dominic Calvert-Lewin-190 minutes per goal 8- Phil Foden-196 minutes per goal 9- Raheem Sterling-205 minutes per goal 10- Danny Ings-210 minutes per goal 11- Ivan Toney-223 minutes per goal 12- Billy Sharp-243 minutes per goal 13- Danny Welbeck-247 minutes per goal 14- Ollie Watkins-249 minutes per goal 15- Eddie Nketiah-253 minutes per goal 15-Marcus Rashford-253 minutes per goal 17- Mason Greenwood-259 minutes per goal 18- Keinan Davis-277 minutes per goal 19- Jarrod Bowen-309 minutes per goal 20- Demarai Gray-314 minutes per goal 21- Andy Caroll-384 minutes per goal 22- Jack Harrison-388 minutes per goal 23- Joe Gelhardt-415 minutes per goal 24- Jack Grealish(he's played up top for City for a couple of games)-443 minutes per goal 25- Ademola Lookman-488 minutes per goal 26- Dwight Gayle-534 minutes per goal 27- Ashley Barnes-586 minutes per goal 28- Adam Armstrong-600 minutes per goal 29- Theo Walcott-670 minutes per goal 30- Jay Rodriguez-1090 minutes per goal 31- Karlan Grant-1133 minutes per goal 32- Nathan Redmond-1540 minutes per goal I'm being very loose in what I consider a striker here but I don't think it matter if a few wingers get included anyway. Nowadays wingers are expected to contribute to goal scoring just as much as strikers are. That just shows the lack of depth of top English strikers. (No criticism of Ollie). You think back to the 90s and early 2000s, when you had the likes of Shearer Sheringham, Fowler, Cole, Ferdinand and Owen etc all fighting to be in the England team and as top scorer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Since the start of last season, 1- Jesse Lingard-148 minutes per goal 2- Harry Kane-159 minutes per goal 3- Jamie Vardy-170 minutes per goal 4- Tammy Abraham=173 minutes per goal 5- Callum Wilson-182 minutes per goal 6- Patrick Bamford-186 minutes per goal 7- Dominic Calvert-Lewin-190 minutes per goal 8- Phil Foden-196 minutes per goal 9- Raheem Sterling-205 minutes per goal 10- Danny Ings-210 minutes per goal 11- Ivan Toney-223 minutes per goal 12- Billy Sharp-243 minutes per goal 13- Danny Welbeck-247 minutes per goal 14- Ollie Watkins-249 minutes per goal 15- Eddie Nketiah-253 minutes per goal 15-Marcus Rashford-253 minutes per goal 17- Mason Greenwood-259 minutes per goal 18- Keinan Davis-277 minutes per goal 19- Jarrod Bowen-309 minutes per goal 20- Demarai Gray-314 minutes per goal 21- Andy Caroll-384 minutes per goal 22- Jack Harrison-388 minutes per goal 23- Joe Gelhardt-415 minutes per goal 24- Jack Grealish(he's played up top for City for a couple of games)-443 minutes per goal 25- Ademola Lookman-488 minutes per goal 26- Dwight Gayle-534 minutes per goal 27- Ashley Barnes-586 minutes per goal 28- Adam Armstrong-600 minutes per goal 29- Theo Walcott-670 minutes per goal 30- Jay Rodriguez-1090 minutes per goal 31- Karlan Grant-1133 minutes per goal 32- Nathan Redmond-1540 minutes per goal I'm being very loose in what I consider a striker here but I don't think it matter if a few wingers get included anyway. Nowadays wingers are expected to contribute to goal scoring just as much as strikers are. Lewandowski - 78 minutes per goal (against Bundesliga defenders though) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 5 hours ago, nick76 said: Why? It gives a view against the best in the competition. Limiting it to just English strikers is disingenuous to the viewer because you can make anything look good if you exclude factors that make your stat look worse. I understand your point that he probably would’ve scored more in a better team but that is the same for Kane, Vardy, Ings, Bamford, Calvert-Lewin. Ollie’s an excellent all round striker, he’s not a clinical finisher like the best but he’s a good finisher and his other attributes are amongst the best. This season he’s been poor, the last few games though have seen some of the old Ollie which is phenomenal. Yes Kane is way out in front even if he doesnt play striker a lot of the time, but hes so calm and clinical. Vardy although age and injuries are beginning to take their toll is next best of English strikers and the others are all about the same level imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 Watkins leads the line very well. He had a 5 or 6 game slump where he was poor, but even when he isn't scoring he usually leads the line well. He plays high up the pitch looking the break the offside trap, get in the channels, stretch the opposition defense, and is a great target for more direct passes. Ings doesn't really lead the line. He drops off, and drifts wide, generally looking for pockets of space, where he can recieve the ball short and lay it off or play one two's. Based on this it was always a partnership that if they could form an understanding would work very well. I'm glad it's now starting to work. I actually think Ollie could get more goals as a result of the partnership with Ings then as a lone striker. I think Ollie's finishing is actually improving, people forget this is only his 3rd season playing as a central striker. I actually beleive that next season could be his best season ever, he has 20 goals in him if the supply, decisions and fitness go his way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 I thought his running and movement was back to his best The block from ayling was excellent defending, not a clue what happened with the guy on the floor 5 yards out stopping him from scoring and unlucky on the 1st goal too Ran his socks off 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Yep. Led the line well tonight. Probably should have squared the ball to Ings for a goal in the first half, but he offers so much to the team with his work rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 He's played well the last few games and offers us a lot up front. Pretty pivotal to how we play, despite the constant criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdman Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Worked hard today my only continued criticism is his decision making sometimes...easy pass/cut back to Ings but tried to shoot from a narrow angle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 Him and Ings have gone from one of the worst combo’s to potentially we have something special on our hands as a duo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, The_Rev said: Yep. Led the line well tonight. Probably should have squared the ball to Ings for a goal in the first half, but he offers so much to the team with his work rate. I think that was the one where he chased down a coutinho pass, just about kept it in, ran at his man, beat him and then fluffed the shot I can forgive him cos after that work he put in to create that chance he deserved a little bit of greediness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I think that was the one where he chased down a coutinho pass, just about kept it in, ran at his man, beat him and then fluffed the shot I can forgive him cos after that work he put in to create that chance he deserved a little bit of greediness Yes. But the difference between a good player and an elite player is end product. Once you are in behind then that has to end in a goal. I love Ollie, I won't begrudge him the shot as a fan but if I were at Bodymoor tomorrow as one of the coaching staff then it's definitely an incident which would get spoken about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJCB Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 His general hold up play has been much much better the last two games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 This sounds like a silly/minor thing but I’m so pleased with him that even while appealing for a pen he got himself back onside for Coutinho’s goal. You know VAR would have said he was distracting the goalkeeper. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted March 10, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 10, 2022 49 minutes ago, The_Rev said: Yes. But the difference between a good player and an elite player is end product. Once you are in behind then that has to end in a goal. I love Ollie, I won't begrudge him the shot as a fan but if I were at Bodymoor tomorrow as one of the coaching staff then it's definitely an incident which would get spoken about. Exactly. It's all about winning football matches. He's got one of the division's most clinical finishers waiting for a square ball there and Watkins has just had a swing at it. Good performance overall though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AV82 Posted March 10, 2022 Share Posted March 10, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Him and Ings have gone from one of the worst combo’s to potentially we have something special on our hands as a duo. It's all one way. Ings >>> Watkins. Never the other way around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Agreed, one of his better games this season despite not being on the score sheet, he showed the other side of his game is worth as much as the goals. Lucky boy to stay on the pitch though, that was a horror tackle on Ayling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, AV82 said: It's all one way. Ings >>> Watkins. Never the other way around. I don't actually think that's intentional though. Just one is a clever player, and the other one isn't. I'm quite happy with how Watkins has performed the last few games though. Edited March 11, 2022 by Tom13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exeter Fan Too Posted March 11, 2022 Visiting Supporter Share Posted March 11, 2022 16 hours ago, AV82 said: It's all one way. Ings >>> Watkins. Never the other way around. Never? We only have to go back to the second half on Saturday (between the third and fourth goals) when Watkins put Ings through one on one against the keeper. Still available on BBC iPlayer (As well as putting Coutinho through *twice* with just the keeper to beat. Would have been three assists for Watkins if those three had gone in) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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