The Global Far Right

[mjmooney]

3 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

France was collaborating with Nazis, sending its wealth to Germany, and murdering its own citizens (with neighbors settling personal scores against other neighbors and rob and informing on them)

The history of the rugby union/rugby league split is interesting in Britain. It's rather more personal in France. 

[Marka Ragnos]

3 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

The history of the rugby union/rugby league split is interesting in Britain. It's rather more personal in France. 

This is something (another thing!) I'm perfectly ignorant about, but I will enjoy looking into. Thanks.

[Rugeley Villa]

12 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

I'm a bit of a Francophobe, so I may be biased, but to think that only 80 years ago (and my parents are both older than that, the space of a lifetime) at least half of France was collaborating with Nazis, sending its wealth to Germany, and murdering its own citizens (with neighbors settling personal scores against other neighbors and robbing and informing on them), it makes all this seem unsurprising to me. Of course France could elect neo-fascists. But they won't last.

I’ve been to Paris, not a good example I know, but the place felt on edge. There was an uncomfortable feeling to it.  Now Rome in Italy was the complete opposite. As I said I shouldn’t be using Paris at that time as an example of what the whole of France is like. 

[TreeVillan]

7 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Why do you think the Argentinians voted for Milei? They've been an economic basket case for decades. That country was destroyed long before he took power and it wasn't the far right that did it.

I was going to reply with something similar. Basic research really.

[Anthony]

18 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I’ve been to Paris, not a good example I know, but the place felt on edge. There was an uncomfortable feeling to it.  Now Rome in Italy was the complete opposite. As I said I shouldn’t be using Paris at that time as an example of what the whole of France is like. 

I went last summer; I get where you're coming from, and this is someone who's lived in Hackney for 20 years. After a day in Paris though, I realised that it was simply different, that's all. Loads of non white faces around me in Hackney and that's 'normal' to me, but in Paris they were different non white faces and it felt quite threatening, until I realised that I was simply not used to seeing so many North Africans, or dark skinned people with turbans, or etc.

I can completely understand why someone from (say) Norfolk would be completely freaked out by the faces they see in Hackney.

[Marka Ragnos]

8 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Why do you think the Argentinians voted for Milei? They've been an economic basket case for decades. That country was destroyed long before he took power and it wasn't the far right that did it.

But what do fascism and MIleism and Kirchnerism and Peronism all have in common, aside from being the dominant political and economic framework for Argentina for basically the last 50 years? Seems pretty obvious to me.

It's not moderate economic centrism that destroyed Argentina's economy (again!). It's always been the twofold crush of murderous authoritarians (of both "left" and "right" species) and profound corruption.

Edited July 3 by Marka Ragnos

[Rugeley Villa]

25 minutes ago, Anthony said:

I went last summer; I get where you're coming from, and this is someone who's lived in Hackney for 20 years. After a day in Paris though, I realised that it was simply different, that's all. Loads of non white faces around me in Hackney and that's 'normal' to me, but in Paris they were different non white faces and it felt quite threatening, until I realised that I was simply not used to seeing so many North Africans, or dark skinned people with turbans, or etc.

I can completely understand why someone from (say) Norfolk would be completely freaked out by the faces they see in Hackney.

Hackney would be completely alien to me also so I understand what you mean. 

[Rds1983]

6 minutes ago, Marka Ragnos said:

But what do fascism and MIleism and Kirchnerism and Peronism all have in common... Seems pretty obvious to me.

They all end in 'ism'.

Nice and obvious when you see them all written out like that.

[Seat68]

My dad is a fairly open racist. He is currently in a cardiology ward. Last night I dealt with 5 people caring for him. All of them had not native accents. My hope is if he makes it out his attitude will change. One positive of it all, he can’t get near a voting slip. 

[mjmooney]

19 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

My dad is a fairly open racist. He is currently in a cardiology ward. Last night I dealt with 5 people caring for him. All of them had not native accents. My hope is if he makes it out his attitude will change. One positive of it all, he can’t get near a voting slip. 

My late mother in law (lifelong Tory voter) proudly declared herself to be racist, to the point of insisting that she would refuse to be treated by a black doctor. 

She lived in a rural Devon village. 

She had never met a black person - but she knew how awful they were. 

She read the Daily Mail. 

My wife and I learned to avoid the subject with her, but it was very difficult. 

[bannedfromHandV]

Yeah I’ve got the ‘I’ll vote Tory cos I’m a Tory boy’ Father too, claims to not be racist but then is racist at every given opportunity, but isn’t racist cos he worked with a black guy and got on okay with him.

Cant believe I’m a product of him to be honest.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, TreeVillan said:

I was going to reply with something similar. Basic research really.

I am well aware of the history but as usual his practices are going to "take some time" and in the meantime the people are seeing all their society collapse around them because the first things cut are always social security things. 

[Rugeley Villa]

My mum is very racist . My grandad was the same , my gran mildly racist too but it’s a generation thing with my grandparents. Suppose I was also racist , probably still slightly am with some of my humour .I do actually work with a black lad  . I’m definitely right leaning but really dislike the far right groups like EDL , old BNP and NF were vile. 

In the world I live in I’m not racist but on VT I’d say many would say I’ve got racist tendencies. Just being honest. 

Edited July 3 by Rugeley Villa

[Rds1983]

3 hours ago, mjmooney said:

She lived in a rural Devon village. 

She had never met a black person - but she knew how awful they were. 

I grew up in one of the larger Devon town's but even with that I didn't ever meet a black person until I was a teenager and it was the mid-90s. That seems kinda insane looking back nowadays. 

There's an odd divide in mentality down there, as apart from the upper classes, the Tories are absolutely hated (Labour aren't keen either but that's another matter) and they're fairly left politically. However, there's definitely a racist/right wing element down there but I think it's the fear of the unknown and that they're a forgotten part of the country that drives it and once people engage more they open up. They kinda dislike every one who isn't local though if that makes sense.

It's also fair from isolated as some of the biggest racists I've ever met have been from urban areas.

 

[Rolta]

3 minutes ago, Rds1983 said:

I grew up in one of the larger Devon town's but even with that I didn't ever meet a black person until I was a teenager and it was the mid-90s. That seems kinda insane looking back nowadays. 

There's an odd divide in mentality down there, as apart from the upper classes, the Tories are absolutely hated (Labour aren't keen either but that's another matter) and they're fairly left politically. However, there's definitely a racist/right wing element down there but I think it's the fear of the unknown and that they're a forgotten part of the country that drives it and once people engage more they open up. They kinda dislike every one who isn't local though if that makes sense.

It's also fair from isolated as some of the biggest racists I've ever met have been from urban areas.

 

I'm from Devon and I don't recognise a single word of this. And Devon is a forgotten part of the country? Erm. 

[lapal_fan]

4 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said:

  I’m definitely right leaning  

Why?

You live in an ex council house?  Your wife doesn't work (so am assuming she's on some sort of benefit)?  You're a working class lad from Rugely.  You've had some pretty hard times with substances and gotten help from different agencies.

If I'm wrong on that let me know, but you're about as far away from a typical Tory as you could get from a social standing point of view.

What would make you a right leaning person, when your life has been heavily affected by left leaning aid?

[chrisp65]

 

[Rds1983]

8 hours ago, Rolta said:

I'm from Devon and I don't recognise a single word of this. And Devon is a forgotten part of the country? Erm. 

People's experiences are different and Devon is a bloody large place.

When it comes to Government funding it is kinda forgotten about. 

[Rugeley Villa]

7 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

Why?

You live in an ex council house?  Your wife doesn't work (so am assuming she's on some sort of benefit)?  You're a working class lad from Rugely.  You've had some pretty hard times with substances and gotten help from different agencies.

If I'm wrong on that let me know, but you're about as far away from a typical Tory as you could get from a social standing point of view.

What would make you a right leaning person, when your life has been heavily affected by left leaning aid?

Upbringing I suppose. Grandad staunch Tory Daily Mail reader. At the time and for many years after Rugeley was mainly all white British. You’d have BNP recruiters doing the pub circuit in the 90s early 2000s.  I was very patriotic in my early days even followed the hooligan scene. Most people around me wether it be family or friends were right leaning. Add to that the explosion of Islamic terrorism which planted a seed in my head massively(I’ve overcome that fear). My personality can be quite Authoritarian. My wife has been working last few years. Her views are different to mine. As a person I’m a lot better than I was in terms of my views. I still enjoy and find funny those old comedy’s Alf Garnett , Rising Damp etc but would I actively be racist to someone no I wouldn’t. Still have some issues in my head with the Islamic faith but at one point genuinely feared it, and I say fear because that was the correct word. Not been overly comfortable with BLM as I think the movement got hijacked my the left. 

[bannedfromHandV]

I wonder how we should view the French election.

On one hand I cannot stand right-wing, racist dickheads, on the other hand however it has to be accepted that there’s a major problem in illegal migration from Calais into the UK, yes, via ‘small boats’.

Will a hardline right wing government in France see a reduction on migrants crossing the width of the country to make it to Calais? Is there some perverse benefit for the UK in seeing Le Pen win the election?