sidcow Posted July 2 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2 22 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Why are The National Rally on the verge of success in France? Is it because all of a sudden the French people have supposedly become racist, or is there more to it . They are French. It's hardly all of a sudden they don't like foreigners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 25 minutes ago, sidcow said: They are French. It's hardly all of a sudden they don't like foreigners What I’m getting at is why now is a far right party about to take over 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 2 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2 Just now, Rugeley Villa said: What I’m getting at is why now is a far right party about to take over Yeah I know. Was just joshing. It's bloody scary really. Right wing seem to be getting in all over the world. They really need to get real and look at what's going on in Argentina. Far right will destroy your country and your life. All they do is talk a good game, trying to blame every man and his dog for YOUR issues and promising to sort it out for you, but they lie and you'll be **** over for absolute certain. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 10 minutes ago, sidcow said: Yeah I know. Was just joshing. It's bloody scary really. Right wing seem to be getting in all over the world. They really need to get real and look at what's going on in Argentina. Far right will destroy your country and your life. All they do is talk a good game, trying to blame every man and his dog for YOUR issues and promising to sort it out for you, but they lie and you'll be **** over for absolute certain. I think France are having a lot of issues with immigration and more importantly integration and have been for a while. Doesn’t seem very pleasant at times. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 2 Moderator Share Posted July 2 43 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: What I’m getting at is why now is a far right party about to take over 2/3rds of the French population don’t want an RN govt, hence why lots of candidates stood down today to make the remaining constituencies effectively 2 candidate races to block an RN govt. The other main parties came together to carve it up 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rugeley Villa said: I think France are having a lot of issues with immigration and more importantly integration and have been for a while. Doesn’t seem very pleasant at times. If only there were historical precedents where the far right had benefitted from fear mongering, jingoism, exaggeration, and cynicism in order to get into power. It's easy to look at France and blame it on the immigrants. Or you could look at France and blame it on the people who wilfully buy into the far right narratives. From my time in Spain, the rise of the far right has nothing to do with immigrants, and a massive rise in people not interested in anything but believing in the worst for whatever reason. Edited July 2 by Rolta 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 3 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3 8 hours ago, Rolta said: If only there were historical precedents where the far right had benefitted from fear mongering, jingoism, exaggeration, and cynicism in order to get into power. It's easy to look at France and blame it on the immigrants. Or you could look at France and blame it on the people who wilfully buy into the far right narratives. From my time in Spain, the rise of the far right has nothing to do with immigrants, and a massive rise in people not interested in anything but believing in the worst for whatever reason. Facebook, Twitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 10 hours ago, sidcow said: Yeah I know. Was just joshing. It's bloody scary really. Right wing seem to be getting in all over the world. They really need to get real and look at what's going on in Argentina. Far right will destroy your country and your life. All they do is talk a good game, trying to blame every man and his dog for YOUR issues and promising to sort it out for you, but they lie and you'll be **** over for absolute certain. Why do you think the Argentinians voted for Milei? They've been an economic basket case for decades. That country was destroyed long before he took power and it wasn't the far right that did it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 11 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: What I’m getting at is why now is a far right party about to take over France is an unusual situation because Macron's party basically annihilated the center when he took over, with a lot of the people from the old centrist parties defecting to his party. Gave him a good majority for the time he's spent in power, but now the French are sick of him and his party there's not really any major centrist alternative. The three options are basically Macron's centrist party, the far-right (who have been working hard in recent years to try and detoxify their image) and an newly formed alliance of hard-left parties. If people want a change, and they do, they haven't really got much choice but to vote for one of the extremes. And yes, France (and the EU as a whole) does have issues with the way the immigration system, especially works with the Schengen zone, and broader problems with racial integration in their country. We'll see whether France actually vote for Le Pen as President when the next presidential elections come around though. Macron will still be president after this election, whatever happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 3 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3 25 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Why do you think the Argentinians voted for Milei? They've been an economic basket case for decades. That country was destroyed long before he took power and it wasn't the far right that did it. But rather than fixing it, they're making everything worse and destroying any kind of social structures. Nobody's lives are being made better by his promises. Now they're waking up and realising this and rioting / leaving in droves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 7 minutes ago, sidcow said: But rather than fixing it, they're making everything worse and destroying any kind of social structures. Nobody's lives are being made better by his promises. Now they're waking up and realising this and rioting / leaving in droves. I feel like you're maybe doing Milei a bit of a disservice here. Unlike most of the far right, he's not inventing problems - he's zeroed in on the key problem Argentina has faced for decades, which is the country is basically insolvent, has poor growth and is trapped in repeating cycles of high inflation. That situation has been impoverishing Argentina for many decades now and it does need to be fixed. He's not the person I'd have chosen to lead Argentina. Yes, his solutions to the problem are very drastic - but they could actually work in the long term. Fundamententally Argentina is going to need to make some very painful financial adjustments at some point. If politicians don't do it, at some point the IMF is going to get sick of throwing money at Argentina and then whoever is in power will have to make the same kind of brutal cuts that Milei has made. You can't defy financial gravity forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, sidcow said: But rather than fixing it, they're making everything worse and destroying any kind of social structures. Nobody's lives are being made better by his promises. Now they're waking up and realising this and rioting / leaving in droves. Their annual inflation rate was 240% last year Inflation is slowing under Milei and the government has started posting a budget surplus for the first time since 2012. I am in the ‘wait and see’ camp with this one. He is restricted from doing the most drastic changes because he doesn’t have full control of the parliament but has started Argentina on a more ‘normal’ fiscal path than the one it was on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Idiots want easy answers to problems caused by decades of apathy, ignorance and unfettered greed. Certain media is determined to feed us the wrong answers, so I'm afraid you're going to have to engage your own brains. Many of the moron Tory Brexit voters here will just double down stupid, sadly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 The prevelance of people like this explain why it's so easy for the far right to hoover up a lot of support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 3 Moderator Share Posted July 3 22 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: The prevelance of people like this explain why it's so easy for the far right to hoover up a lot of support. Yep, Owen Jones is an absolute rocket polisher, he'd put anyone off voting for a sensible party 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 29 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: The prevelance of people like this explain why it's so easy for the far right to hoover up a lot of support. The problem is that the Tories haven't done anything to improve the economy, the NHS, immigration, schools, poverty, trains, housing, roads, inflation, energy prices etc. Everything is worse now than it was 14 years ago. The far right are just using the immigration figures to support their racist rhetoric. Low hanging fruit really, and those with already similar views are going to be swayed by them. As bad as Reform are, I don't think you can blame people for voting for them at this election. The Tories have willfully pushed them into it, especially with a complicit media over the last year constantly heralding the benefits of the Rwanda policy whilst simultaneously decrying any dissenters as woke or left wing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wainy316 said: The prevelance of people like this explain why it's so easy for the far right to hoover up a lot of support. To be fair to this guy, over the course of a minute he's considered and moderated his view from executing them when they get off the boats, to shooting the boats, to simply not letting them get on the boat in the first. Let him talk for another couple of minutes and he'll be putting asylum seekers up in his spare room It's quite funny talking to people like this who have clearly never had anyone even politely push back on the heinous shit they're saying, they're just used to everyone either enthusiastically agreeing, or politely ended the conversation as soon as possible, you can almost hear the cobwebs as the cogs start to churn that he's actually got to try and respond to someone not agreeing with him. Edited July 3 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted July 3 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, Wainy316 said: The prevelance of people like this explain why it's so easy for the far right to hoover up a lot of support. In only a few years time this guy is going to be frail and bed bound needing someone to feed him, wash him and wipe his arse and empty his catheter. I can tell you from personal experience with my father and my Grandmother before that is that the only person he will get to do that for him is immigrants. Who does he think will do it otherwise because there aren't thousands of "nice" white British people queuing up to do it. He'll be sitting alone starving stewing in his own shit and piss wondering why no one is coming to help him the **** wit. Edited July 3 by sidcow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 7 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: France is an unusual situation because Macron's party basically annihilated the center when he took over, with a lot of the people from the old centrist parties defecting to his party. Gave him a good majority for the time he's spent in power, but now the French are sick of him and his party there's not really any major centrist alternative. The three options are basically Macron's centrist party, the far-right (who have been working hard in recent years to try and detoxify their image) and an newly formed alliance of hard-left parties. If people want a change, and they do, they haven't really got much choice but to vote for one of the extremes. And yes, France (and the EU as a whole) does have issues with the way the immigration system, especially works with the Schengen zone, and broader problems with racial integration in their country. We'll see whether France actually vote for Le Pen as President when the next presidential elections come around though. Macron will still be president after this election, whatever happens. Thanks for explaining well . Surely though if your politics is in the middle then why would you vote for an extreme left or an extreme right it just doesn’t make sense. Ok you might be sick of Macron but surely that doesn’t alter your political views that much where you’d go to extreme right or left party’s. I understand there are plenty of people leaning to the right for obvious reasons and also the left for obvious reasons and wouldn’t be voting for Macron anyway but if I was Centrist with my views no way would I vote for the alternatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marka Ragnos Posted July 3 VT Supporter Share Posted July 3 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I understand there are plenty of people leaning to the right for obvious reasons and also the left for obvious reasons and wouldn’t be voting for Macron anyway but if I was Centrist with my views no way would I vote for the alternatives. I'm a bit of a Francophobe, so I may be biased, but to think that only 80 years ago (and my parents are both older than that, the space of a lifetime) at least half of France was collaborating with Nazis, sending its wealth to Germany, and murdering its own citizens (with neighbors settling personal scores against other neighbors and robbing and informing on them), it makes all this seem unsurprising to me. Of course France could elect neo-fascists. But they won't last. Edited July 3 by Marka Ragnos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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