Popular Post duke313 Posted August 4, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Honestly, I'm kinda fine with that. £12m + addons with a nice buyback clause for a player who, seeing from Villa willing to enter negotiations/sell, doesn't really have a pathway into the team at the moment. Regardless of what happens, this further reinforces how incredibly well the academy is being run: you've got the likes of the two Ramseys, Chukwuemeka, Philogene, Archer all valued at the £10m+ bracket. When you have academy players of that calibre it's kind of a win-win no matter happens with them: they're either integrated into the team (J. Ramsey, Philogene, Archer) or sold for pure FFP profit (Chukwuemeka, A.Ramsey?). Alex Scott is on the verge of moving to Bournemouth for £25m, there is no way we should accept £12m for Ramsey. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 And it's not like it's pure profit because if we have to buy him back he'll cost us more money. Ignoring the cost of essentially forcing Jacobs younger brother out. And how that might affect our relationship with him. It's better to just get loan fees on a player like Aaron. If you can get 2 mil in loan fees it's what 400k a year less than what we'd be receiving anyway from Burnley and we don't run the risk of having to buy him back for 30 mil. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, duke313 said: Alex Scott is on the verge of moving to Bournemouth for £25m, there is no way we should accept £12m for Ramsey. Scott has 2 full seasons/80 games of Championship football under his belt at 19 and has been lauded by the likes of Pep, he's an exceptional talent. Ramsey, as good as he is, has played about a third of that at 27 Championship games and hasn't been lauded by the likes of Pep. I'd prefer if the fee was higher, but it is what it is. Also, £12m seems to just be the guaranteed fee per Nixon: the addons will probably take that higher. Edited August 4, 2023 by wishywashy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, MotoMkali said: And it's not like it's pure profit because if we have to buy him back he'll cost us more money. Ignoring the cost of essentially forcing Jacobs younger brother out. And how that might affect our relationship with him. It's better to just get loan fees on a player like Aaron. If you can get 2 mil in loan fees it's what 400k a year less than what we'd be receiving anyway from Burnley and we don't run the risk of having to buy him back for 30 mil. Are we forcing him out? Burnley are a club that are going places under a very good manager. Kompany would evidently be offering him first-team football. If we can't offer that (i doubt it), it's a very enticing project for any 20-year old. There's only so many times you can keep loaning players out until they want some sort of long-term stability, either at a parent club or elsewhere permanently. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 8 minutes ago, wishywashy said: Scott has 2 full seasons/80 games of Championship football under his belt at 19 and has been lauded by the likes of Pep, he's an exceptional talent. Ramsey, as good as he is, has played about a third of that at 27 Championship games and hasn't been lauded by the likes of Pep. I'd prefer if the fee was higher, but it is what it is. Also, £12m seems to just be the guaranteed fee per Nixon: the addons will probably take that higher. I couldn't care less what that baldy cheque book manager says. So, give Ramsey a full season on loan and then sell him for £25m, either way we shouldn't be accepting £12m. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 If we wanted to sell him with a low buyback clause the only way to do that would be to let him go for much less than he's actually worth, clubs aren't going to bow down to us and let us have it all our own way, we wouldn't be able to sell him for say twenty million plus and add a low buyback, would have to be one or the other. But we shouldn't be selling him at all, he's definitley on a similar level to Scott, he's stood to a similar degree as him in the Championship and actually looks better than him for England youth teams, as I've said already people laud Scott because of his attacking ability and how he reminds them of Grealish but he can't get into the England team ahead of Ramsey in the attacking roles, he has to play as a DM. He's pretty much on similar level to Scott and Chukwuemeka, so I woudn't be letting him go for half of what they went for, as I said I wouldn't let him go at all, I'd sell Archer or Philogene before I'd sell Aaron, not that I would be in a rush to sell them either, just illustrating that Aaron might be the most fantastic of our youth players in terms of the ones playing first team football. Burnley might be interested but beyond that I'm pretty sure most of the speculation is just guesswork, journalists and fans that don't know the lowdown guessing that we would be willing to sell him and guessing what the transfer fee would be, for a start if he was available for just £12m I'd be surprised if much better teams than Burnley weren't interested in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d821mc Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 If we are offered the 17/18m that City seem to be getting for all their youngsters I think we should take it. With a sell on clause. Realistically, he is so far away from the starting XI atm. Jacob will be struggling for a starting spot this season. We are not in a position now where he will be able to play a whole season to find his feet like his brother was able to. He is not that young anymore. We are just not in a position atm with FFP to have assets that valuable not being properly utilised. City have the model others should be aspiring to. The youngsters are funding seriously good acquisitions for the First Team. If any youngster is that special they just keep them anyway. Or can buyback at a later date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Jacob won't be struggling for a start, he will be a regular, people are just fickle and base so much on pre-season games, just because Tielemans had a good game doesn't mean that suddenly Jacob Ramsey is going to struggle for game time, he's a vital part of how we play none of our other players can do what he can do, the closest as it happens is his brother, which is one of the reasons I don't agree with idea that Aaron is miles away from the first team, if Philogene is good enough for our first team then so is Aaron Ramsey. Also not sure what Ciy's youngsters have to do with Aaron's worth, they're not as good as him just because they've come from Man City academy, the closest they 've got is James McAtee, but I'm not even sure if he's as good as Aaron, yet you can guarantee if he was available half our fans would be begging to sign him, just as they do with Alex Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Would be absolutely insane to sell Ramsey for that little. He's one of our best prospects with a higher ceiling than Archer and JPB IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Perhaps a rumoured low fee is in "exchange" for a lower buy back? If we sell him for say £12m but have a £20m buy back then we're either going to get £12m for someone who proves not to be good enough or we'll get a bargain at £20m in 2 years time - at which point we'll have paid £8m for him but booked a £12m profit 2 years before. Win-win Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 18 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said: Perhaps a rumoured low fee is in "exchange" for a lower buy back? If we sell him for say £12m but have a £20m buy back then we're either going to get £12m for someone who proves not to be good enough or we'll get a bargain at £20m in 2 years time - at which point we'll have paid £8m for him but booked a £12m profit 2 years before. Win-win What if he ends up being really good and is sold to City for £40m, our buy back clause ins't going to be much use then, and we'll have sold a top player for peanuts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 4 hours ago, wishywashy said: Honestly, I'm kinda fine with that. £12m + addons with a nice buyback clause for a player who, seeing from Villa willing to enter negotiations/sell, doesn't really have a pathway into the team at the moment. Regardless of what happens, this further reinforces how incredibly well the academy is being run: you've got the likes of the two Ramseys, Chukwuemeka, Philogene, Archer all valued at the £10m+ bracket. When you have academy players of that calibre it's kind of a win-win no matter happens with them: they're either integrated into the team (J. Ramsey, Philogene, Archer) or sold for pure FFP profit (Chukwuemeka, A.Ramsey?). I am not in favour of him leaving....but I understand the counter arguement. However....there are young players who have been transferred recently for huge sums, Gibbs White- Gordon- and other players valued similar......when ours just need another 12 months. do we sell for £10 mill or possibly get £30-£40 in 12 months time....if chuk is worth £15-20 so is AJ We have potentially a lot of games next season AJ could find more game time, than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 To get 30 to 40 million for him Aaron would be needing to start most games in the Prem . I have a feeling that to do that he would have to be starting ahead of JJ and Coutinho at left wing Ahead of Buendia and McGinn at number 10 and ahead of Diaby and Bailey at right wing . Would be extremely hard and require a huge injury situation for that to happen. So taking his allegiances to Villa aside what would a good agent be doing now.? He is good enough for the Prem so needs to be playing in the Prem. Burnley may well give him that opportunity and then it is up to him to make the most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 Selling Aaron Ramsey is a horrible, horrible idea. No problem loaning him to a newly promoted team to get Prem experience for a season, then reassess next summer when he either comes home or is sold for far more money. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishywashy Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 I reckon it'll be up to the player. Either stay at Villa (and presumably get loaned out again) or try and push for Burnley (and thus start at a Prem team). Doubt Villa would accept a £12m with addons deal regardless of what happens though. Quite curious to see how this saga develops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 AJ is our best Academy player. Archer and (relatively out of nowhere considering their relative performances on loan last year) Philogene are getting all of the Kudos and acclaim. But AJ is the one that is most likely to make it at this level. We would be insane to sell him for £10-12m regardless of what clauses are in there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieGriffin Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, duke313 said: What if he ends up being really good and is sold to City for £40m, our buy back clause ins't going to be much use then, and we'll have sold a top player for peanuts. A buy back clause would presumably give us first option/refusal. If someone like Man City went in at the same price then that's down to the player and not us. Im not advocating selling him, but at the same time we cannot keep stockpiling players - some have to leave, and they wont always be ones we agree with. Ultimately, if Emery and his team think that he'll be worth £40m in a handful of years then we probably wont sell him (certainly not for £12m or so). If they dont think he'll make it, bearing in mind that a few replies were surprised he isn't 17/18, then we have to trust their call. As has been said elsewhere, the minimum level required to play for Aston Villa has risen a lot in the last season (certainly since Emery came in) - he might be at a midtable/bottom 8 level, which is perfectly fine but ultimately not good enough for us now Edited August 4, 2023 by StewieGriffin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 24 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said: A buy back clause would presumably give us first option/refusal. If someone like Man City went in at the same price then that's down to the player and not us. Im not advocating selling him, but at the same time we cannot keep stockpiling players - some have to leave, and they wont always be ones we agree with. Ultimately, if Emery and his team think that he'll be worth £40m in a handful of years then we probably wont sell him (certainly not for £12m or so). If they dont think he'll make it, bearing in mind that a few replies were surprised he isn't 17/18, then we have to trust their call. As has been said elsewhere, the minimum level required to play for Aston Villa has risen a lot in the last season (certainly since Emery came in) - he might be at a midtable/bottom 8 level, which is perfectly fine but ultimately not good enough for us now but he is developing and only 20, chances are in 2 years time he will be a sought after player.......The important thing here is, he hasn't had the opportunity, like his brother....thats not a criticism of the club, just circumstances. Most agreed last season , we was painfully thin in numbers..... we have only brought in 3 players....and we have a european spot to face and possibly 2 cups to challenge. I have no idea of the threat of FFP, so I can't comment....but for me, AJ is not just any run-of- the- mill academy player, but a damn promising one. I hope we are able to keep him, and see more clearly regards the expected progress, many of us see in him. Vincent Kompany is no mug....he see's his potential too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 I think that we have to start looking at the top teams way of 'using' our best young prospects as a means to make money. It doesn't make me feel good saying this, but how many of the "elite' clubs are developing players with the single idea of integrating them into their first team? Very occasionally there will we an absolutely outstanding star, but more often than not they go out on loan before eventually being sold at a very useful profit. Elite football is more of a business than a sport, and we are getting closer to joining the "elite". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted August 4, 2023 Share Posted August 4, 2023 (edited) I can’t remember many or indeed any clubs outside of the Champions League elite making one of these buy back clauses stick, and I can’t understand why Burnley would agree to such a thing just to save a couple of mil of a transfer fee unless the terms are heavily skewed in their favour, which then makes it pretty pointless for us to agree to. As others have said there’s no guarantee we could even bring the player back anyway, there are examples of players moving elsewhere and bypassing the buy back option entirely Edited August 4, 2023 by david-avfc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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