Aaron Ramsey

[TRO]

10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

There's no evidence that AJ would acquit himself in PL football better than Bailey let alone Buendia. Certainly not based on a 6 month loan in the Championship. You forget Buendia was Championship player of the season the summer we bought him and had 32 goal contributions in the league that year. This is far beyond anything AJ has shown in his career thus far. That's not even getting to the fact that Buendia now has 3 full seasons of PL experience under his belt. 

A young players development projection, can't be evidence based, by definition....its perceived judgement.

Who could have been sure, that Jude Bellingham or Jack Grealish would have turned out , this good?..... we all suspected it, but thats all it is...suspicion.

Edited August 2, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

5 hours ago, gwi1890 said:

The fee is ridiculously low, but people have to remember that we have to sell players selling the likes of Nakamba for a low fees and giving Wesley away for free doesn’t really help our ffp situation, selling players from our academy greatly benefits us financially. We can’t keep them all I’m afraid.

We can't keep them all.....but the better ones, of which there are not that many, need to be fully developed, before we start letting them go or keeping them....we could be waving goodbye to future stars if we don't get the timing and judgement right.

You don't eat a pie, before its cooked.....

Its also worth noting the microscope will be on, when we sign new school boys, of which its important to get the best ones.

The pathway to the first team, is a crucial piece of criteria, any young startlets people, will be monitoring....and I am sure they would be monitoring our actions, should we sell off promising young international footballers, too early.

Edited August 2, 2023 by TRO

[skarroki]

17 minutes ago, TRO said:

All salient points....but not addressing the one I was making.

appraise Aaron Ramsey now, and then appraise him again in a couple of seasons when he has broken in to the first team like his brother.......the difference is likely to be significant, thats the point I am making, but we have to wait and see.

when I said we don't know what we are selling, I was refering to the developed player....not his past character.

Right sorry, I just had a lot of thoughts on it and laid them all out in a response to you. 

Overall I agree that we should keep him, I agree with you too. 

My only concern is the player he turns into with us and the player he turns into if we sell now could be worlds apart in terms of ability. There's a scenario we could live to regret both decisions if he never kicks on for us, but would kick on when sold. 

[Pinebro]

6 minutes ago, skarroki said:

Right sorry, I just had a lot of thoughts on it and laid them all out in a response to you. 

Overall I agree that we should keep him, I agree with you too. 

My only concern is the player he turns into with us and the player he turns into if we sell now could be worlds apart in terms of ability. There's a scenario we could live to regret both decisions if he never kicks on for us, but would kick on when sold. 

Sometimes you have to take the L.

We can't waste young players career and let the rot on the bench on the odd chance they will suddenly come good one day.

[Knutserov13]

Maybe he would like to go, maybe he is eager to play PL football right now which he will not do at Villa this season. Maybe he will do that (for Villa) a few years down the line but isn't prepared to go out on loan in championship again for a season or two? Maybe he would like to settle down in a new area and just get on with his football. Who knows?

I wouldnt want him to go, I would like him to be a superstar at Villa playing with his brother but I cant see it... Sometimes the club as to do business that suits them. That said, 10 million is way to cheap.

[KevinRichardsonsMoustache]

If we can loan him with a nice fat fee with no obligation for us to sell him at the end of the term, then I’d be for it.

 

Would show how far we have come that we are using other clubs to develop our players for us. We’ve gone up a level. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Aaron Ramsey is the last one we should be selling and unless he himself wants to leave I doubt that we would even entertain the idea, if we're that desperate to sell a youngster to help with FFP then sell Archer who isn't as good, but because of his goals would probably fetch just as much if not more, or better still if we need to sell, then sell the liks of Digne, Coutinho, Chambers, Dendoncker, Traore, Davis, and so on.

Our very best academy players, Bogarde, Aaron Ramsey, Iroegbunam, and so on, are the last players we should be selling, theramin point of the academy is to produce such players to save ourselves having to spend tens of millions on first teamers wherever possible,  you don't put the amount of effort we've put into developing someone like Aaron Ramsey, watch him stand out at 16, 18, 21, levels, play as a regular for England throughout all the age groups and sometimes captain them, go out on loan to two promotion chasing championship teams and look like a standout player for both whilst scoring goals and assisting, to only then sell that player before he's had a chance with us.

People keep comparing us to Man City and Chelsea and how they sell their youngsters but our first team or academy isn't at their level yet, by that I mean for their first team they can go out and sign a couple of players worth fifty million or more for every positon, they've got stronger finances and to most players are a more attractive propositon than us, and as such any top academy players they produce they're in less need of than we are of ours, our academy is catching up, but it's still very young in it's development, each year we might produce an handful with a real chance of making it as a footballer at a very good standard and hopefully some can make it with us, but likes of Man City and Chelsea at the moment are producing many more, so they can also more afford to let some of their top youngsters leave for that reason too.

I agree, with most of that.

However, different skill set between a midfielder and a striker....scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in football, so I wouldn't be as dismissive of Archers goals....both are valuable players to us, ask the Borough fans.

The secong embolden bit, its the most significant imo.

 

[The_Steve]

Alan Nixon is one of the biggest BS merchants. He doesn’t know anything about our dealings. We aren’t going to let either JJ or AJ go permanently. 

[gwi1890]

51 minutes ago, TRO said:

We can't keep them all.....but the better ones, of which there are not that many, need to be fully developed, before we start letting them go....we could be waving goodbye to future stars if we don't get the timing and judgement right.

Its also worth noting the microscope will be on, when we sign new school boys, of which its important to get the best ones.

The pathway to the first team, is a crucial piece of criteria, any young startlets people, will be monitoring....and I am sure they would be monitoring our actions, should we sell off promising young international footballers, too early.

It’s a difficult one imo for all that Man City is  (cheating aside) look at how much money they are generating from selling young players 15m-20m a pop their sales last year generated the funds to sign Haaland and Alvarez. It’s not difficult to insert a large sell on clause or a buyback clause.

[duke313]

5 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

It’s a difficult one imo for all that Man City is  (cheating aside) look at how much money they are generating from selling young players 15m-20m a pop their sales last year generated the funds to sign Haaland and Alvarez. It’s not difficult to insert a large sell on clause or a buyback clause.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

It’s a difficult one imo for all that Man City is  (cheating aside) look at how much money they are generating from selling young players 15m-20m a pop their sales last year generated the funds to sign Haaland and Alvarez. It’s not difficult to insert a large sell on clause or a buyback clause.

The top clubs have a perceived higher value attached to their young stars, for obvious reasons, they are easy targets for plaudits and international call ups.

I get your point, but I don't think we are quite at the stage they are....having said that £120 mill for jack and Chuk, isn't a bad return for starters.

We need to cultivate to eat, before we have enough to be selling the crop.

[StewieGriffin]

16 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Alan Nixon is one of the biggest BS merchants. He doesn’t know anything about our dealings. We aren’t going to let either JJ or AJ go permanently. 

He does know Lancashire clubs pretty well though 

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Alan Nixon is one of the biggest BS merchants.

Just not even remotely true.

[pas5898]

Sell him with a buy back clause (Man City love to do this).

Win win for us.  If he's good in the PL and we pay the fee he will always come back to Villa. 

Edited August 2, 2023 by pas5898

[useless]

Man City have many more talented youngsters than we have as their academy is more established, ours is still very early in it's rebuild, so they can more afford to sell some of their better youngster, they also have a much better first team squad than us and greater means to strengthen their first team even more, in other words they have less of a need to produce top youngsters for their first team than we do, if we can produce academy players good enough to be part of our squad then that's a big bonus for us, whereas Chelsea and Man City are less reliant on that they can have a couple big money world class players for every position.

The idea of having an academy that can produce players to sell on for a profit, for us isn't about selling players as good as Ramsey, it's about selling the players that have already proven that they're not good enough or that we're confident will never be good enough.

[gwi1890]

15 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Like I said cheating aside I knew someone would jump on this hence the reason why I said what I said. It was just an example of how we might be attempting to run our club .

Edited August 2, 2023 by gwi1890

[duke313]

5 minutes ago, pas5898 said:

Sell him with a buy back clause (Man City love to do this).

Win win for us.  If he's good in the PL and we pay the fee he will always come back to Villa. 

And have they activated any buy back clauses and brought players back?

[The_Steve]

7 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said:

He does know Lancashire clubs pretty well though 

Got the Ndiaye to Marseille deal completely wrong - said Sheff United wanted £30m but sold him for £20m 

[The_Steve]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Just not even remotely true.

Like how we sold McGinn to Man United for £50m because Nixon said so

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said:

He does know Lancashire clubs pretty well though 

There is another 47 counties to consider......