Icarium Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Feels a bit like the Josh Maja saga at sunderland. Young up and comer gets questionable advice from an agent looking to get a bigger agent fee by having a client sign elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Looking at Gerrard's career and some of the stunts his agents performed in order to get better deals throughout his career, such as the constant links to other clubs and refusal to sign contracts, then it looks like Carney and his reps are taking inspiration from Gerrard's career. When he was 18? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said: When he was 18? No, but isn't that what humans do? Look at an older person, try to do what they do, master it earlier and the human race keeps developing? Evolution I think they call it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 minute ago, sparrow1988 said: No, but isn't that what humans do? Look at an older person, try to do what they do, master it earlier and the human race keeps developing? Evolution I think they call it. The point is Steven Gerrard worked extremely hard to get into the first team of one of the most successful clubs in the country and continued to work hard throughout his career. That is the thing that Carney needs to copy. Wanting and expecting everything now is a part of the evolution in the modern world that may lead to extinction rather than anything particularly good for our future. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted July 14, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2022 I had a dream last night that we sold him to Newcastle for £2.5m. Make of that what you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: The point is Steven Gerrard worked extremely hard to get into the first team of one of the most successful clubs in the country and continued to work hard throughout his career. That is the thing that Carney needs to copy. Wanting and expecting everything now is a part of the evolution in the modern world that may lead to extinction rather than anything particularly good for our future. I had written 'not always for the best' in brackets after 'the human race keeps developing' . I agree, but it's just the way of the world, especially in football. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 7 hours ago, USA_Villa said: Is it only me that thinks this is really bad man management from Gerrard? This is the same player that Purslow said was the best player in the country for his age two years ago. What message does this present to the other youth players? Not convinced this is a good move Stevie. As opposed to what? Letting a young and untested player blackmail us into offering a ridiculous contract? We don't know the full facts yet but the rumours are (and they may just be that) is that he has been offered a very good contract and he wants a lot more. The message it sends it that we won't be pissed about with, which is a good message to send to the other youth players. I hope it gets resolved and he stays, but the club are in the right here. He's had an offer for months and still no movement. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 34 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Looking at Gerrard's career and some of the stunts his agents performed in order to get better deals throughout his career, such as the constant links to other clubs and refusal to sign contracts, then it looks like Carney and his reps are taking enough inspiration from Gerrard's career. When you're a top player and one of the best in Europe, you have the leverage to do that. Rooney did it as well. You can back up your demands with prior performances. Not when you are 18 and untested though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villa87 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 Just another thought - say he signs this contract and does well he will likely get another contract offer in 12-18 months time to reflect that. Swear it happened with JJ… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 1 hour ago, The_Steve said: I don’t get the level of vitriol - he’s entitled to consider his options, just like Luiz - who hasn’t signed a new deal. Yes, their positions at the club are different, but lots of assumptions are made of Carney that aren’t evidenced. I have no problem with the carrot/stick approach - it could easily change. I just don’t get why so much is assumed of one and not the other. Vitriol towards a kid, I bet the decisions of every critic when they were 18 were perfect especially such a huge career decision Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 11 minutes ago, PieFacE said: I had a dream last night that we sold him to Newcastle for £2.5m. Make of that what you will. Probably more reliable info than some of the ITK journos 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 So we don't know the reasons why he wont sign (we can speculate) but the long and short of it is that we have a player with one year left on his contract, who is not good enough as it stands to be a first team regular (and hence give us a season of performances and results), and who we know will leave at the end of the coming season. So for me, regardless of the reasons for him not signing, he should be sold, and sold now. If he is as fantastic as people are making out there will be a line of clubs beating a path to our door to bid for him. If he is not sold (unthinkable as he is so brilliant, right?) And still does not sign a new contract then he absolutely should not play next season as there are much better players in the squad than him and where we can afford to play a developing player then we should play someone who is here for the long haul. To play him this season would be akin to taking on someone else's youngster to develop them for a season. No thanks. One way or another, his time here is up. Thanks and good luck kid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 8 minutes ago, Xela said: When you're a top player and one of the best in Europe, you have the leverage to do that. Rooney did it as well. You can back up your demands with prior performances. Not when you are 18 and untested though. Mm Rooney did similar at 18 to Everton to join United yes he was a bit more high profile but turned down a number of deals so United could get him cheaper on deadline day 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 7 hours ago, Hiney said: I see it quite simply. He has been offered a contract, getting on for 12 months ago which he is yet to sign. By all accounts it's a very good offer. He has also received ample game time for someone of his age, and while he has shown promise, he hasn't burst onto the scene like Micah Richards did where he almost instantly becomes a guaranteed starter. Fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 44 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Looking at Gerrard's career and some of the stunts his agents performed in order to get better deals throughout his career, such as the constant links to other clubs and refusal to sign contracts, then it looks like Carney and his reps are taking enough inspiration from Gerrard's career. He might send around the local businessmen who convinced him that transfer request to join Chelsea was a mistake and to pledge his love for the club like he did 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 7 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: Put him in the media spotlight? I've literally never heard an interview with him or seen him talked about other than for his football. The only statements about his contract have come from his manager. I'd be surprised if a quarter of PL fans have even heard of him. He's in the news in some way every few weeks. Not doing interviews - that would be him putting himself in the spotlight. It's his agent/family dropping clubs he may be off to every few weeks to journalists and ensuring his name is always in the papers. No other academy kids get it to this level. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: Mm Rooney did similar at 18 to Everton to join United yes he was a bit more high profile but turned down a number of deals so United could get him cheaper on deadline day Rooney had two full season with Everton under his belt, and played for England in an international tournament all by the age of 18. He was the most in demand teenager in world football, and was never going to stay at Everton when Man Utd were after him. And United paid over £30m for him, hardly getting him on the cheap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 13 minutes ago, Villa87 said: Just another thought - say he signs this contract and does well he will likely get another contract offer in 12-18 months time to reflect that. Swear it happened with JJ… I agree. We've shown if you do the business you will be rewarded no matter how long is left on your current deal. Which makes me thing this is more than just money. Not saying it's not but I'd not be surprised if the talk of Barca and 75k a week demands isn't absolute rubbish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 (edited) 31 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: I agree. We've shown if you do the business you will be rewarded no matter how long is left on your current deal. Which makes me thing this is more than just money. Not saying it's not but I'd not be surprised if the talk of Barca and 75k a week demands isn't absolute rubbish. Yeah it's the people representing him. Proper experienced agents can give proper advice. As for a sale, we have a precedent where Sancho at 17 was sold to Dortmund for £8m (going by transfermarkt) and a 15% sell on clause. He had 1 year left on his contract at the time. Sancho was the one who pushed for that move and wasn't signing an extension at City. So we should be expecting over £10m and a sell on clause for Carney Edited July 14, 2022 by CVByrne edit for correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 14, 2022 Share Posted July 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Yeah it's the people representing him. Proper experienced agents can give proper advice. As for a sale, we have a precedent where Sancho at 17 was sold to Dortmund for £18m (going by transfermarkt) and a 15% sell on clause. He had 1 year left on his contract at the time. Sancho was the one who pushed for that move and wasn't signing an extension at City. So we should be expecting over £10m and a sell on clause for Carney Dortmund paid 8 million for Sancho, City were due 200k if he left when his contract expired 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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