Carney Chukwuemeka

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, HalfTimePost said:

Young attacking CM won't listen to Steven Gerrard about his career.

I won't feel too much sympathy for him to be honest for dealing with some social media heat. Him and his agency have been putting him in the media spotlight for 3 years. No other 18 year old in the country (I.e. not Bellingham) gets the attention Carney gets. Very very maybe Harvey Elliot.

Some players get stick they havent asked for - and no player deserves it to be clear - but if you and your agent court it for 3 years, you can't be immune to the worse side of it imo

 

Put him in the media spotlight?  I've literally never heard an interview with him or seen him talked about other than for his football.  The only statements about his contract have come from his manager.  I'd be surprised if a quarter of PL fans have even heard of him.

[CVByrne]

7 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said:

The grim reality, we don’t have any obligation to even give him u21 game time. 
 

but I don’t think we are even that mean spirited 

I think rules state we must provide him training. What form the minimum standard is we need to give him I don't know. I'm sure he can train but not be playing any games

[WHY]

7 hours ago, hippo said:

I wouldn't be leaving him out of the first team pre season tour for one thing.

So you would be happy to let him play in front of players who want to stay and need match fitness, knowing he wants to leave? If so then you don’t know how this game works. 

[tinker]

Just now, WHY said:

So you would be happy to let him play in front of players who want to stay and need match fitness, knowing he wants to leave? If so then you don’t know how this game works. 

We don't know he wants to leave, we just know he's not happy with the contract he's been offered. Just like Douglas. 

[CVByrne]

5 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

Is it only me that thinks this is really bad man management from Gerrard? This is the same player that Purslow said was the best player in the country for his age two years ago. What message does this present to the other youth players?

Not convinced this is a good move Stevie.

Yes, it's only you

[WHY]

15 minutes ago, tinker said:

We don't know he wants to leave, we just know he's not happy with the contract he's been offered. Just like Douglas. 

It’s pretty evident he wants to leave, his agent has met with representatives from Clubs all over Europe for the past 12 months, he’s leaving.

Luiz for the most part is a starter and will most likely be here next season if we don’t sell him, he needs match fitness.

Edited July 14, 2022 by WHY

[DeadlyDirk]

16 minutes ago, tinker said:

We don't know he wants to leave, we just know he's not happy with the contract he's been offered. Just like Douglas. 

I'm pretty sure those at the club..... Everyday, know exactly what the state of play is, way more than us fans looking in and seeing what we're supposed to see. The people at the club are reacting to what they know not what fans think they know or speculate...

[jacketspuds]

I’m glad we’re not buckling on this. If he won’t sign a deal then I don’t see the point in keeping him until his deal runs out and involving him in pre-season. If it’s because of wanting double what apparently is already an incredible amount of money for a player of his age and experience then I’m all for seeing him leave.

We get bent over by one young player and his representatives because they have potential and we will quickly get shafted by a lot of other agents for our youngsters wanting huge deals the next time it comes to get a new contract.

The club needs to remain in control of these situations.

[CVByrne]

6 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

Now, here's the thing, if you have a young player and you think he's being poorly advised, by his father or a father figure in his church and you've been finding their approach to negotiation frustrating. When what they're doing isn't wrong for them, but it's not how most negotiations are done and you'd hope to be in a much clearer position right now than you are - then you'd really want to find a way to get that player into more professional representation.

But how do you persuade the player that his father or father figure isn't perhaps doing the right thing by him - especially when they've been attracting the attention of some big name sides - from his point of view; you're happy in your football, you have friends in your club, but your family aren't tied to the badge and there are lots of opportunities for you.

I think you look at the player's frustrations and your own - I'm sure he doesn't want all this fuss and attention, he's 18, he's just a kid getting into this, he's a humble churchgoing young man and I'm sure he'd like minimum fuss - that's not what he's getting, so you lean on that, you try to force an answer out of his representative for months, and then when nothing else seems to be working, you take away the most important thing in his life - football.

Carney Chukwuemeka will be at home right now, texting friends in Australia and having very serious thoughts about whether his dad or his minister are the best people to be looking after his career - now they might be doing a good job, but there's lots about this situation that isn't normal, that a big agency would try really hard to keep a kid away from - they'd have him tied up quietly into some deal or other before he gets all the noise, before all the social media name calling and all the trouble that comes with being a holdout player.

He's in a really awkward spot - he's poorly represented and he's forced the club into a corner - and yeah, Barcelona may well await, but a year is a long time for an eighteen year old to sit still because his dad has a business plan or his church needs a new roof and he'll know that the best way for him to develop is outside of the public eye, with the friends he knows care, somewhere settled. He'll be uneasy tonight.

If it is down to inexperienced advice from family / church then hopefully the PFA can offer advice to him in his current situation. I would assume his representation thought, we'll get the u19s over with and then the club will give in to our demands. They have walked into a stone wall, I assume the club have said we know how good Carney, u19s doesn't change anything. He has an excellent offer on the table he needs to decide upon. If he signs it he will be back in the first team squad if he doesn't he won't be with the first team squad until he does or his contract expires. Until then he'll be back training with his age group and opportunities will be afforded to those committed to the club. 

In all of this, I hope Carney does want to stay and he's simply been staying out of all this contract talk to date and focussing on football. I also hope faced with the prospect of not playing football for a year does make him more active in this contract situation than he has been to date. Also, how can these representatives of his work out a move abroad this summer if he is desperate not to take a year off playing meaningful football.

The situation is very unique. It's very rare that any player of an established Premier League club turns down a lucrative contract when he turns 18. They are almost always focussed on breaking into the first team and future moves and aspirations are for the future. The only one I can think of is Sancho turning down City and saying he wanted to move to Dortmund, that was because of the game time he'd get there would be far more than he would at a stacked City team. Carney is on the cusp of his breakthrough season, he has JJ as proof Villa is a club that gives young players game time. So the reasons for moving in this situation aren't really the same. It really seems like just bad representation wanting crazy money in this situation. 

[Vancvillan]

With all respect to the many people (rightly) saying "look at JJ", let's not forget that one year ago a player who had graduated from our academy became the most expensive English player of all time.

We have pedigree in terms of developing young players who have the talent. CC would do well to achieve half of what Grealish has. He has an equal chance of being the next Franny Jeffers, and at 18 it blows my mind that he's leaving this opportunity on the table for the hope of something better.

Am also annoyed at myself for replying and bumping the thread because this is getting **** boring.

 

 

[UpTheVilla26]

Honestly, I couldn't care less if he stays or goes. 

I've seen nothing from his minutes on the pitch that have made me think we could lose the next big thing and if he's believing his own hype at his age, I'm old enough to name you a catalogue of youngsters who done the same and ended up playing in tinpot League's by the age of 23. 

Far more excited to see how Tim Irogbuenam develops, as he plays a position that seems harder to go into the market and sign a player for, so I'd rather we chuck our eggs in that basket. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by UpTheVilla26

[The_Steve]

I don’t get the level of vitriol - he’s entitled to consider his options, just like Luiz - who hasn’t signed a new deal. Yes, their positions at the club are different, but lots of assumptions are made of Carney that aren’t evidenced. I have no problem with the carrot/stick approach - it could easily change. I just don’t get why so much is assumed of one and not the other. 

[DaveAV1]

12 hours ago, david-avfc said:

I don't mind if he wants to move on, other players have moved clubs at young ages and have been successful in doing so, particularly those moving to Germany in recent years. After all we signed Carney from Northampton Town anyway so we can't complain too much at him wanting to do the same thing again!

But what does irk me is that it seems like the lad has been given preferential treatment to entice him to stay - all our other youngsters have been loaned out first, and none of them were given reasonable PL game time at the age of 17 - and it looks like we've wasted our time when we could have prioritised giving other youngsters game time, or just playing senior players and maybe picking up more points during the season in games like Leeds, Burnley or even Liverpool and Man City. It's not his fault as he's just playing the cards he's been dealt to the best he see's them, but for the club it seems like poor planning as this could have been foreseen well in advance as transfer rumours go as far back as 2 years with this lad.

I would love us to continue to develop youngsters,  hopefully Ramsey will be our next home grown superstar and will then hopefully be followed by the likes of Archer, Kesler-Hayden among others. However, the players we chose to bring through at the very basic level have to be committed to Villa, if we are committed to developing them. The point of the youth system is to improve the club in the long run, either through selling them for significant transfer fees or bringing them into the senior squad. If we prioritise developing youngsters who don't want to stay around for the long haul it is hard to see what the benefit is. 

You’ve taken a situation with one individual and applied it to the whole of the development set up. Almost all of Carney’s contemporaries have signed new contracts. Our reputation regarding how we treat and develop young players is extremely high. 
 

So yes the policy of developing young players has huge benefits and the policy on the whole works. We can’t base a policy on single individuals who actions are different to the general norm. The policy is wrong if it doesn’t produce consistent results, but that’s not the case here. 
 

You’re right he has been treated very well and the club have pushed the boundaries of what they can reasonably be expected to offer an 18 year old, who may well have extraordinary talents, but has yet to turn his talents into high level performances on the pitch. We can only do so much before we say, enough’s enough. Work hard kid and the world is at your feet but more talented kids than you have failed to fulfil their potential for a variety of reasons over the years. 

[CVByrne]

12 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

I don’t get the level of vitriol - he’s entitled to consider his options, just like Luiz - who hasn’t signed a new deal. Yes, their positions at the club are different, but lots of assumptions are made of Carney that aren’t evidenced. I have no problem with the carrot/stick approach - it could easily change. I just don’t get why so much is assumed of one and not the other. 

The comparison with Luiz is nonsense. Luiz was signed as a first team player to have an impact on the pitch for the length of his contract. He has been a regular since day 1 and contributed on the pitch to getting the club to where we are now.

Youth players take investment from the club without actual contribution until the point that flips over. So the time they are given on the pitch is at the expense of a better player at that time, this is to help the young player improve to become a first team player who contributes at the level of a senior peer. This is the investment the club gives the player and the return we get is once they have a season like JJ had last season. 

This works all the way down the pyramid. A team from League 2 who has a youth player join a Premier League club get - what is to them - a significant amount of money for that work developing talent.

In Carneys case he wants to take all the investment the club has given and give nothing at all back and walk away for essentially nothing to boost his wages. He's clearly allowed to do that but we are allowed to have disdain as football fans and also as people for cynical actions like that.

Edited July 14, 2022 by CVByrne

[CVByrne]

I do think the club have learned from this situation though. Look at Tim, only when he signed a long professional contract was he considered for first team mins. I think this will become the new policy for the club.

[theboyangel]

It’s a shame really that CC won’t sign a new deal and we don’t know the reasons for his decision.

I cannot imagine the offer on the table is derisory in any way.

It reminds me a little of Dan Crowley - another bright prospect who thought the grass would be greener and look what happened to him. 

FWIW, I think Gerrard has done the right thing by leaving him in the UK. 

[CarryOnVilla]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

I think rules state we must provide him training. What form the minimum standard is we need to give him I don't know. I'm sure he can train but not be playing any games

Training and game time is different things 

[weedman]

6 hours ago, USA_Villa said:

Is it only me that thinks this is really bad man management from Gerrard? This is the same player that Purslow said was the best player in the country for his age two years ago. What message does this present to the other youth players?

Not convinced this is a good move Stevie.

Probably not, but you're wrong. At the end of the day, if we've only got him for another 12 months then potential is completely irrelevant to us, he has to be good enough to play for us now.

He's not better than our current first choice options, so he's not worth us playing him over then. 

Its a final attempt by us to get him to sign, we've made it easy for him so far, he's played games, offers on the table, take your time and make a decision. Now that decision has stakes because it's actively harming his development. He won't want a wasted year, we don't want to waste our time on a player that's leaving. I think he'll leave or sign a contract this summer, but I don't think he'll leave for free next year 

[Jareth]

Well if he goes we're finally ok to use his first name as a discriminatory way to describe circus folk.

[sparrow1988]

8 hours ago, HalfTimePost said:

Young attacking CM won't listen to Steven Gerrard about his career.

Looking at Gerrard's career and some of the stunts his agents performed in order to get better deals throughout his career, such as the constant links to other clubs and refusal to sign contracts, then it looks like Carney and his reps are taking enough inspiration from Gerrard's career.

Edited July 14, 2022 by sparrow1988