AvonVillain Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Jude Bellingham has 83 games for Dortmund behind him at 18! I'm not comparing, but I think it's clear why the likes of Carney might look at what's going on elsewhere and think, why not me? He's never going to improve on the bench. I can definitely see him leaving, and I think good luck to the lad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AvonVillain said: Jude Bellingham has 83 games for Dortmund behind him at 18! I'm not comparing, but I think it's clear why the likes of Carney might look at what's going on elsewhere and think, why not me? He's never going to improve on the bench. I can definitely see him leaving, and I think good luck to the lad. but he has earn't those games too....you have to force the manager to play you. Jude Bellingham is a phenomenon for his age, like Duncan Edwards was.....its no good CC comparing himself to him, that's if he is?.....just because its happened at Dortmund for Jude, doesn't mean it will happen for Carney. Bellingham has shown at 16+ he was no risk to put in, Hence Dortmund paying £25 mill, which is now a snip. Players make their choices, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Provided Jude don't plateau out too early, he will be one of the elite players in the country.....CC just has to keep working at his game and force the call. Edited March 30, 2022 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jim Posted March 30, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2022 51 minutes ago, AvonVillain said: Jude Bellingham has 83 games for Dortmund behind him at 18! I'm not comparing, but I think it's clear why the likes of Carney might look at what's going on elsewhere and think, why not me? He's never going to improve on the bench. I can definitely see him leaving, and I think good luck to the lad. What a weird take. By that logic every 18 yr old would be thinking the same. If he or any other 18 year old were as good as Jude they would get game time. CC is nowhere near his level. It’s on him to give the management and coaching staff something to think about. At the moment they clearly don’t think he is there yet. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 Carney is a young hugely talented prospect who might become brilliant but equally might fade away. Jude is a young hugely talented complete footballer. The most complete 18 year old since Rooney. He can play anywhere. Carney in my mind will suit German football more than the Prem. Its a bit slower and a whole lot less intense for the most part. He might be able to play the game at his own pace which is where he excels. I would love him to stay at the Villa but in my mind its Iroegbunam who will suit the Prem more. He has got the electric burst of pace that Ramsey has . And the tenaciousness that is rarely seen in Carney. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, AvonVillain said: Jude Bellingham has 83 games for Dortmund behind him at 18! I'm not comparing, but I think it's clear why the likes of Carney might look at what's going on elsewhere and think, why not me? He's never going to improve on the bench. I can definitely see him leaving, and I think good luck to the lad. I pointed this out yesterday. But Jude Bellingham was a starter in the senior team at 16 years old ( Even though it was in the Championship ) and was tearing it up against grown men. Carney's greatest accomplishments so far have come against under 21s and under 19s. He can look at what is happening elsewhere all he wants. Similarly to how Bacuna wanted Champions League Football. If you're good enough, both the game time and money will come. If you're a prodigy, it will come expeditiously. JJ is a CM, so him " not looking out of place " when first coming through, is a different proposition to someone alot of you are lauding as Paul Pogba in his prime. There is a reason why JJ was fast tracked nto the team by Deano, and kept there, ( You can even argue promoted ) by SG. In the same vein, there is a reason why Carney isn't yet starting Premier League games over certain seniors. Due to position, playing style, and readiness. Also, if the signs have been that he might not be inclined to sign a contract, why should we " fatten foul for Mongoose " as we say in Jamaica. Give him playing time, to get more experience, and form, so he can be better for whichever club him and his agents have probably been talking to for a year? Sorry, but I want people who are all in with us here, regardless of how good they are, or might be. Edited March 31, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted March 31, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I pointed this out yesterday. But Jude Bellingham was a starter in the senior team at 16 years old ( Even though it was in the Championship ) and was tearing it up against grown men. Carney's greatest accomplishments so far have come against under 21s and under 19s. He can look at what is happening elsewhere all he wants. Similarly to how Bacuna wanted Champions League Football. If you're good enough, both the game time and money will come. If you're a prodigy, it will come expeditiously. JJ is a CM, so him " not looking out of place " when first coming through, is a different proposition to someone alot of you are lauding as Paul Pogba in his prime. There is a reason why JJ was fast tracked nto the team by Deano, and kept there, ( You can even argue promoted ) by SG. In the same vein, there is a reason why Carney isn't yet starting Premier League games over certain seniors. Due to position, playing style, and readiness. Also, if the signs have been that he might not be inclined to sign a contract, why should we " fatten foul for Mongoose " as we say in Jamaica. Give him playing time, to get more experience, and form, so he can be better for whichever club him and his agents have probably been talking to for a year? Sorry, but I want people who are all in with us here, regardless of how good they are, or might be. Love it, I am now going to introduce this into conversations as many times as I possibly can for the immediate and longer future Edited March 31, 2022 by Follyfoot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Gerrard picking a team from the same group of 12 players makes a mockery of his comments about wanting a "big squad". A big squad is there to be used. JJ and Carney will not start in the same team as having two youngsters in midfield isn't something Gerrard will do in the Prem. Carney has had 188 mins in the Prem this season and hasn't made it on the pitch in the last 6 games since Bailey and Traore returned to fitness. Ramsey for example had 615 mins on pitch last season. Then cemented his starting place this season. Carney is right to want to know in the summer what his playing time will be next season. Will want to see what the squad looks like and if players like Traore and Luiz/Sanson depart thus reducing the senior players blocking his path to more game time. If Carney doesn't get enough assurances of his place and game time next season he should leave to join a club guaranteeing him the game time. It's quite simple tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 3 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Gerrard picking a team from the same group of 12 players makes a mockery of his comments about wanting a "big squad". A big squad is there to be used. JJ and Carney will not start in the same team as having two youngsters in midfield isn't something Gerrard will do in the Prem. Carney has had 188 mins in the Prem this season and hasn't made it on the pitch in the last 6 games since Bailey and Traore returned to fitness. Ramsey for example had 615 mins on pitch last season. Then cemented his starting place this season. Carney is right to want to know in the summer what his playing time will be next season. Will want to see what the squad looks like and if players like Traore and Luiz/Sanson depart thus reducing the senior players blocking his path to more game time. If Carney doesn't get enough assurances of his place and game time next season he should leave to join a club guaranteeing him the game time. It's quite simple tbh He should have been sent out on loan in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, duke313 said: He should have been sent out on loan in January. Well we were short of fit players at the time and it was too risky to send him on loan. He was getting on the pitch every week back then. If he can be convinced to sign a new contract he will hopefully have EFL Cup and Prem games to play before the World Cup. Then can be assessed if he should go on Loan (hopefully to another Prem club) for 2nd half of the season to get game time vs staying with us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 14 hours ago, jim said: What a weird take. By that logic every 18 yr old would be thinking the same. If he or any other 18 year old were as good as Jude they would get game time. CC is nowhere near his level. It’s on him to give the management and coaching staff something to think about. At the moment they clearly don’t think he is there yet. bang on the money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I have said before, he has had a contract offer from us and if he chooses not to sign it, then I can fully appreciate why SG wouldn't give him game time, when his not signing that contract, suggests that he sees his future elsewhere. Whether he should seek a move to progress his career or not, is open to question, but I think that Ramsey has shown that you can do just as well at B6, if football is the only determining factor in the decision. Whatever we may think, it's Carney that will make the decision (no doubt on the advice of his agent), when he does so, I hope that he will realise that the grass is not always greener playing for (or not playing for) another side. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Gerrard picking a team from the same group of 12 players makes a mockery of his comments about wanting a "big squad". A big squad is there to be used. JJ and Carney will not start in the same team as having two youngsters in midfield isn't something Gerrard will do in the Prem. Carney has had 188 mins in the Prem this season and hasn't made it on the pitch in the last 6 games since Bailey and Traore returned to fitness. Ramsey for example had 615 mins on pitch last season. Then cemented his starting place this season. Carney is right to want to know in the summer what his playing time will be next season. Will want to see what the squad looks like and if players like Traore and Luiz/Sanson depart thus reducing the senior players blocking his path to more game time. If Carney doesn't get enough assurances of his place and game time next season he should leave to join a club guaranteeing him the game time. It's quite simple tbh 34 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Gerrard picking a team from the same group of 12 players makes a mockery of his comments about wanting a "big squad". A big squad is there to be used. JJ and Carney will not start in the same team as having two youngsters in midfield isn't something Gerrard will do in the Prem. Carney has had 188 mins in the Prem this season and hasn't made it on the pitch in the last 6 games since Bailey and Traore returned to fitness. Ramsey for example had 615 mins on pitch last season. Then cemented his starting place this season. Carney is right to want to know in the summer what his playing time will be next season. Will want to see what the squad looks like and if players like Traore and Luiz/Sanson depart thus reducing the senior players blocking his path to more game time. If Carney doesn't get enough assurances of his place and game time next season he should leave to join a club guaranteeing him the game time. It's quite simple tbh Carney has to show in the games he does play, the odd move or shimmy is not enough, he should be owning games - The academy- that he doesn't belong there, and he is ready to take his first team place. He has to standout, more than he is.....I think its a fair point that he should have gone on loan somewhere, and that circumstances at B6 have hampered this....but I accept he needs games in mens football. Edited March 31, 2022 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 29 minutes ago, TRO said: Carney has to show in the games he does play, the odd move or shimmy is not enough, he should be owning games - The academy- that he doesn't belong there, and he is ready to take his first team place. He has to standout, more than he is.....I think its a fair point that he should have gone on loan somewhere, and that circumstances at B6 have hampered this....but I accept he needs games in mens football. I think the plan was to follow JJ who broke into the team and then cemented his place. The bad form and Deano's sacking and then Gerrard determined to pick the same team so they can learn his tactics and style of play. Neither have helped him this season. I think what Carney needs is to see his place in the squad. So if Gerrard says "We're signing a top class 6 and then letting an 8 leave. We're also letting one of our 10's leave. My four 8's are JJ, McGinn, Sanson and you. My two 6's are Bissouma/Phillips and Nakamba." Then if he isn't getting the game time expected come January he goes on Loan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 18 hours ago, villa4europe said: For me he was doing exactly the same as Ramsey was when he broke through and it's a shame his opportunities have dried up If Ramsey, chuk and timbo all end up at the same level we have a midfield for 10 years The balance there in that 3 is mouthwatering. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 15 hours ago, jim said: What a weird take. By that logic every 18 yr old would be thinking the same. I don't understand what's even slightly strange about this opinion. Plus, well.... exactly that; Why shouldn't every 18 yr old think the same?? That's the point I'm making. Why sit on the bench game after game and potentially sign a contract for more when your career could really get going somewhere else, even at a lower level, or even better, abroad, where you'd really start to gain more than just first team football but life experience. That's exactly what I'd be thinking. How is that a 'weird take'? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 16 hours ago, jim said: What a weird take. By that logic every 18 yr old would be thinking the same. If he or any other 18 year old were as good as Jude they would get game time. CC is nowhere near his level. It’s on him to give the management and coaching staff something to think about. At the moment they clearly don’t think he is there yet. I don’t think it’s a weird take at all. It doesn’t necessarily mean carneys thinking he’s at the same level as Jude or he should be starting for us, it’s the hardest league in the world. But if he has the opportunity to move to Germany for example and play weekly then I think anyone would be attracted by it. And I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, I actually like it when young players move abroad for regular football. If we sign Coutinho on a permanent and say we do get a new midfielder, and assuming JJ is nailed on. That leaves one midfield space for carney to play. We have Mcginn, Douglas, TI and possibly Sanson next season all fighting for that spot. And of course we can say he should be doing enough to prove he’s good enough etc, but we don’t rotate at all. If the remaining games play out and he’s getting an odd 10/15 mins here and there I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s attracted by a move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 12 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: why should we " fatten foul for Mongoose " as we say in Jamaica. I’m pinching that JV. You’ll be able to hear that one all over Birmingham and The Highlands. Obviously I won’t take the credit for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, AvonVillain said: I don't understand what's even slightly strange about this opinion. Plus, well.... exactly that; Why shouldn't every 18 yr old think the same?? That's the point I'm making. Why sit on the bench game after game and potentially sign a contract for more when your career could really get going somewhere else, even at a lower level, or even better, abroad, where you'd really start to gain more than just first team football but life experience. That's exactly what I'd be thinking. How is that a 'weird take'? Because Bellingham is a step above He's playing 40 games a year and starting for England because he is a better player, not because he's joined a club who gives him more of a chance than the one that he's at Madueke leaving spurs would be a better example But even then he was one of three players who left spurs youth set up chasing football, he's broke through at psv this year, Reo Griffiths has still done nothing at lyon, the 3rd joined utd and I can't even remember who he is, then throw in some more like panzo who left Chelsea for Monaco and doesn't play for them (think he's on loan somewhere) said before dortmund also took bynoe gittens from Man City but he hasn't kicked a ball for them yet, illing junior left Chelsea for juventus and struggles to get games for their U23s Using the best 18 year old in world football to say more players would think about leaving where they are is the wrong take imo Bellingham would be getting games at any club in the world right now 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, a m ole said: The balance there in that 3 is mouthwatering. To be fair, if the 3 are as they are supposed to be, by description/potential, it does sound like the type of midfield mix we've been missing for years! 1 Box to Box | 1 destroyer who can also play and has some stature | 1 wildcard who is more attacking minded. Edited March 31, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 34 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: To be fair, if the 3 are as they are supposed to be, by description/potential, it does sound like the type of midfield mix we've been missing for years! 1 Box to Box | 1 destroyer who can also play and has some stature | 1 wildcard who is more attacking minded. Yep it is on paper at least a really interesting combination. I think when we played stoke away at u23 level when we won 8 nil we had that midfield but with Aaron instead of Jacob. And it looked really tasty. And those are the 3 that started 2 of the England u19 games last week. It is really balanced. That said i think the most balanced england midfield ever would be whats coming in a couple of years Bellingham - Rice - Gallagher . Will be unstoppable especially with lots of other young midfielders like ours coming through behind them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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