omariqy Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, TRO said: I totally agree, you need a mix....I have said ,no hard and fast rule. I guess to a degree, I have been influenced by how Ron Saunders built his teams, for my sins. Cropley- Arsenal Rimmer-Arsenal Swain-Chelsea Withe -Newcastle and then on to Dean Saunders- Liverpool Sure he had some great kids coming through, so I guess that helped. I just think its an area, we should be more mindful of. I can see your points and I agree with some of them. I just think football is a different game now with the money involved. Players are motivated differently and that translates to the pitch. Players chomping at the bit at their clubs like Ings and not getting their chance are the players you wan to sign. Not sure how many of them exist though. For what it's worth, my brother who is a bit of a football expert has suggested the following: Winger Ikone from Lile McNeil from Burnely Dodi Lukebakio - Hertha Deulofeu Striker Rashica Patson Daka Edouard Gayle (a cheaper squad player) King CM McKennie Lerma CB Simakan from Strasbourg Smalling from Man U Full Back Dalot from Man U Rico from Bournemouth Edited August 6, 2020 by omariqy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 6, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) They also made that statement of intent before FFP and before the huge wage bubble. The equivalent 'statement of intent' these days would be dropping 100m-150m and 300k a week on a Dybala type player. It won't happen. EDIT: Page break got me Edited August 6, 2020 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Because I am a sad bastard, I went through the squads of the top 6, looking at rej-, sorry fringe players and compiled a list below. How many of these would we want? And more importantly, how many would actually come?? Plop Divock Origi Xherdan Shaqiri Harry Wilson Citeh Oleksandr Zinchenko Angelino Nicolás Otamendi Eric García Jon Stones United Andreas Pereira Jesse Lingard Phil Jones Juan Mata Chris Smalling Marcos Rojo Sergio Romero Timothy Fosu-MensahAxel TuanzebeChelsea Ross Barkley Tammy Abraham Michy Batshuayi Fikayo TomoriVictor Moses Lucas Piazon Ethan Ampadu Danny Drinkwater Marco van Ginkel Kenedy Leicester Wes Morgan Demarai GrayMarc Albrighton Islam SlimaniKelechi Iheanacho Daniel Amartey Adrien Silva Matty James Rachid GhezzalSpurs Danny Rose Kyle Walker-Peters Erik Lamela Eric Dier Juan Foyth Cameron Carter-Vickers I can't see many on this list who fit both criteria above (bolded ones I think fit), also as others have said, buying these fringe players hasn't worked well for the likes of Everton, Palace or West Ham recently. And even if we look at the bolded, how much will they cost? Looking at Championship to PL, we have: (and this is a list combined from my memory recently and last year's transfer window) Maddison Bowen Konsa Mepham Kelly Sessegnon Billing Jack Clarke Freeman Robinson Pieters Lowton Westwood Daniel James Rodriguez Mooy Wood Obviously some misses there, but mostly solid PL players. As much as I think just shopping in the championship is not a recipe for success, it is incredibly foolish to discount it, or even be skeptical really. I think most of those fringe players would improve us to be honest. But it would destroy our current wage structure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Bit harsh to say Stones and Barkley have done **** all. Stones has 85 appearances and Barkley 50. Yes neither of them proved to be good enough for Man City and Chelsea but I think they would be very good players for us. Stones is possibly the worst defender to play at a top team, never seen him win a header or a tackle. Half decent on the ball Barkley is a vanilla player, offers nothing in games. Both got far from media hype and an english passport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 15 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Because I am a sad bastard, I went through the squads of the top 6, looking at rej-, sorry fringe players and compiled a list below. How many of these would we want? And more importantly, how many would actually come?? Plop Divock Origi Xherdan Shaqiri Harry Wilson Citeh Oleksandr Zinchenko Angelino Nicolás Otamendi Eric García Jon Stones United Andreas Pereira Jesse Lingard Phil Jones Juan Mata Chris Smalling Marcos Rojo Sergio Romero Timothy Fosu-MensahAxel TuanzebeChelsea Ross Barkley Tammy Abraham Michy Batshuayi Fikayo TomoriVictor Moses Lucas Piazon Ethan Ampadu Danny Drinkwater Marco van Ginkel Kenedy Leicester Wes Morgan Demarai GrayMarc Albrighton Islam SlimaniKelechi Iheanacho Daniel Amartey Adrien Silva Matty James Rachid GhezzalSpurs Danny Rose Kyle Walker-Peters Erik Lamela Eric Dier Juan Foyth Cameron Carter-Vickers I can't see many on this list who fit both criteria above (bolded ones I think fit), also as others have said, buying these fringe players hasn't worked well for the likes of Everton, Palace or West Ham recently. And even if we look at the bolded, how much will they cost? Looking at Championship to PL, we have: (and this is a list combined from my memory recently and last year's transfer window) Maddison Bowen Konsa Mepham Kelly Sessegnon Billing Jack Clarke Freeman Robinson Pieters Lowton Westwood Daniel James Rodriguez Mooy Wood Obviously some misses there, but mostly solid PL players. As much as I think just shopping in the championship is not a recipe for success, it is incredibly foolish to discount it, or even be skeptical really. Forgot about Shaqiri. Worth a cheeky £15m bid? Edit: or loan? Edited August 6, 2020 by LxYoungAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I understand your point and it would be folly of me to dismiss it out of hand....But we are trying, I think to raise our profile. Every player is a gamble, i think we agree on that.....I just think taking from below is a huge gamble and unlikely to raise our profile.....look no one is right on this, just stating my opinion. E.G i am not proposing we follow the Man City model, because we can't compete financially, who can........but they changed their profile from the Mark Hughes and Peter Reid days.....when they signed Robinho, they made a statement of intent and the rest is history. He was apparently on 160k a week which at the time made him one of the highest paid players in the world. How do we make that kind of statement of intent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, Killeen30 said: I read Stone Roses there mate. Haha! sign them as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted August 6, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted August 6, 2020 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: He was apparently on 160k a week which at the time made him one of the highest paid players in the world. How do we make that kind of statement of intent? As I said above, the likes of Dybala/Bale/Neymar, for 150m and 300k a week. It won't happen, not in this day and age, never mind how rich our owners are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: He was apparently on 160k a week which at the time made him one of the highest paid players in the world. How do we make that kind of statement of intent? Hmmmmmm tricky, if true. well one alternative is the status quo. but I think we are all touching on extremes now. Edited August 6, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 minute ago, Zatman said: Stones is possibly the worst defender to play at a top team, never seen him win a header or a tackle. Half decent on the ball Barkley is a vanilla player, offers nothing in games. Both got far from media hype and an english passport I still think they are more than good enough for a mid table Premier League team. They both have over 30 caps each too. I see where you’re coming from with them both being overrated though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rjw63 Posted August 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: well one alternative is the status quo. 2 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 40 minutes ago, sne said: The City, Plop, Barca and so on tactic rests on their players winning the ball back as early and as high up the pitch as possible. The exact opposite to park the buss. It's the attackers and wide forwards that do the bulk of their defending. couldn't agree more....just not seen much reference to it on here, like you have illustrated. Edited August 6, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: As I said above, the likes of Dybala/Bale/Neymar, for 150m and 300k a week. It won't happen, not in this day and age, never mind how rich our owners are. Sad thing is that apart from Dybala ( who is on a paltry £225k week) the other 2 would have to reduce their salaries by quite a bit to agree to a £300k/ week contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villalad21 Posted August 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2020 Good chances Leeds will land both Benrahma and Watkins. Bielsa will be a big factor for players deciding between clubs. It's just a huge benefit you get by having a high profile coach. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TRO said: couldn't agree more....just not seen much reference to it on here, like you have illustrated. Kind of helps when you have the best players in the world to do the defending from the front. Being top players are not just about having better technique. They are also much fitter and certain cases stronger players in my opinion. Edited August 6, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Good chances Leeds will land both Benrahma and Watkins. Bielsa will be a big factor for players deciding between clubs. It's just a huge benefit you get by having a high profile coach. Depends, do they have £50m to spend on top of the money they have already spent on Costa, Meslier and Augustin if they can't wriggle their way out of that deal? They also need money to replace Ben White in defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 5 minutes ago, sne said: Sad thing is that apart from Dybala ( who is on a paltry £225k week) the other 2 would have to reduce their salaries by quite a bit to agree to a £300k/ week contract. but he went from Palermo to Juventus for 32 million Euros'...... we are in that market according to reports now. We need to be intrepid moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Kind of helps when you have the best players in the world to do the defending from the front. Being top players are not just about having better technique. They are also much fitter and certain cases stronger players in my opinion. I agree. something to aim for then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, TRO said: but he went from Palermo to Juventus for 32 million Euros'...... we are in that market according to reports now. We need to be intrepid moving forward. Did you not see the 225k a week part mate? We can pay the fees. It’s the wages we can’t manage. Edited August 6, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 6, 2020 Author Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: but he went from Palermo to Juventus for 32 million Euros'...... we are in that market according to reports now. We need to be intrepid moving forward. 5 years ago. That's £70m-£100m signing now. IMO we are a year or 3 away from that type of signings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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