Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 6 hours ago, VillaCas said: As we've discussed many times TRO, it's all down to expectations - from MON onwards we have been in ten years of gradual decline; decline in ownership, decline in managers, decline in playing squad, decline in reputation and decline in league position. We've had a number of false dawns, but I hope that the arrivals of our latest owners we can turn the tide. We've had roughly a season and a half of this reboot and I feel that as a club we are progressing. Is it steady, constant, relentless progress - absolutely not! but I never expected that. It's taken ten years of decline for us to end up where we did, I imagine that it will now take another few years to get us back to where we would like to be with plenty of hurdles and set backs along the way The expectation, as much as I understand it when Smith took over a 14th place team, was that he would bed himself in during his first half season, strengthen in the summer and make a push for promotion this year. Due to a record-breaking winning run we won a surprise promotion. It was clear that the squad needed a massive overhaul, but FFP and/or a limit on the funds available did not permit the kind of experienced/PL ready players most would have wished for Have mistakes been made - Yes, lots; The transfer policy is to buy players who will improve and have a good sell-on value, thats well and good but doesnt give you the immiedate tools that you need for a relegation battle; The 'ban' on loan players is a mistake in my eyes; Is the Dof F the right man for us? Some of his signings look suspect; Smith, in my opinion, was not pragmatic enough at the start of the season and then swapped to being too pragmatic. All of these issues wash into each other and we as outsiders can only take an uneducated guess how much is the strategy, how much the players, the DofF and the manager. My opinion is that the club and Smith will have learnt enormously this year. I expect that the summer window will address the calls for a little more experience and strength in the squad. I would do what I believe the club will do and keep Smith - he will have learnt a lot this season about the job, the club and his squad. Only if a real top class manager was available would I consider changing PS I don't think all our best players are getting worse - Heaton and McGinn have been injured, Mings, Hause, Hourihane, Nakamba all look about the same. Luis, Targett and Konsa look to be improving. Trez, AEG, Samatta and Davis were poor at the start of the season and are still poor now. Jack is the only player who looks worse than the first half of the season - personally I think he is trying to do too much himself PPS - Your ps is grasping at straws! In the scheme of things I can't be bothered to argue whether 25 apperances each constitute 'regular' Fantastic post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Rob182 said: How are the players worse than when we started the season? Are you saying that just because the team is playing worse as a whole? Even though it’s arguably just El Ghazi and Grealish that are playing worse. I’d add Samatta but he wasn’t here then. Our defence is playing better as a whole, so naturally our defenders are now playing better. Mings - better. England squad. Konsa - better. Hause - better. Targett - up and down all season, but no worse now. Guilbert - see Targett. Engels - good at the start, then made a few errors but is now injured. Unless you think he’s now a worse player just because of a few clangers in a newly promoted team? Elmo - better Taylor - arguably better Luiz - better McGinn - better. He’s gone from being on heh fringes of the Scotland team to being their best player. He’s been recovering from a bad injury so can’t really be judged on the restart games. Trez - arguably better after restart. Mings, better......do me a favour. our results are worse, but the players are better.......are you sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, TRO said: But we don't want to be signing managers after 10 games.....thats not preparation. I don't understand, why we give him c 10 games before we pull the trigger......on the basis of giving him c 10 games, why not give him the whole season, why not just let him stay in the job, losing as mny games as he likes, it might turn eventually....this argument is flawed. Correct, it would be silly to sack him after 10. Hopefully that doesn't happen. Happy to replace with a great name...who will come? If we can get a Bielsa, obviously yes, goodbye and thanks for the good times Dean. Even my possible favourite of Barnsley's Struber would be a risk I'm not sure I'd take. It's all about Suso and getting him out. Doesn't matter who is in charge if they're given crap expensive players every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, TRO said: Mings, better......do me a favour. our results are worse, but the players are better.......are you sure? We're in the division above TRO. Prem is harder than the Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Tomaszk said: We're in the division above TRO. Prem is harder than the Champ. some people still fail to grasp this part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Tomaszk said: We're in the division above TRO. Prem is harder than the Champ. What are you talking about? Mings was better early season......and so was our results, slightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 30 minutes ago, TRO said: What are you talking about? Mings was better early season......and so was our results, slightly. Mings doesn’t impact our whole result. He impacts the defence. Since the restart, we’ve conceded 10 goals in 8 games. We’ve picked up 6 points. At the start of the season, we conceded 12 goals in 8 games, but we picked up 8 points. So... conceded fewer goals since the restart but scored fewer goals. That could be because our goalscorers are now playing poorly. Grealish in particular. Also, at the start of the season, our opening fixtures were fairly kind. In those 8 games we played Bournemouth, Palace, Burnley, Norwich and West Ham. Winnable games. Plus also Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. In these recent 8 games we’ve played much tougher teams. Sheff Utd, Chelsea, Newcastle, Wolves, Liverpool, Man Utd, Palace and Everton. Are we really THAT much worse now than we were at the start of the season? It looks to me like our defence has finally clicked, our midfield looks a lot more fluid, but that Grealish and any other players that can score are just looking devoid of inspiration. If you’re trying to use your usual ‘we shouldn’t keep Smith because he doesn’t improve us’ line, it doesn’t really work, as parts of our team are now working much better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Mings doesn’t impact our whole result. He impacts the defence. Since the restart, we’ve conceded 10 goals in 8 games. We’ve picked up 6 points. At the start of the season, we conceded 12 goals in 8 games, but we picked up 8 points. So... conceded fewer goals since the restart but scored fewer goals. That could be because our goalscorers are now playing poorly. Grealish in particular. Also, at the start of the season, our opening fixtures were fairly kind. In those 8 games we played Bournemouth, Palace, Burnley, Norwich and West Ham. Winnable games. Plus also Everton, Spurs and Arsenal. In these recent 8 games we’ve played much tougher teams. Sheff Utd, Chelsea, Newcastle, Wolves, Liverpool, Man Utd, Palace and Everton. Are we really THAT much worse now than we were at the start of the season? It looks to me like our defence has finally clicked, our midfield looks a lot more fluid, but that Grealish and any other players that can score are just looking devoid of inspiration. If you’re trying to use your usual ‘we shouldn’t keep Smith because he doesn’t improve us’ line, it doesn’t really work, as parts of our team are now working much better. I think centre backs have a huge influence on results......I think Mings was better in the earlier games,too. we have stopped the rot of conceding huge amounts of goals pre lockdown,admiral, granted....but we still have the old trait of conceding after scoring, perfectly illustrated last night......thats all it takes, Moments of poor play defensively.....we surrendered the initiative, something done most of the season, thats in our current DNA.....its not a one off....its us, its what currently defines us.....everyone knows, not just villa Fans. We were winning 1-0, we didn't have to score more, despite the poor miss from El Ghazi. We just had to contain a poor Everton side and instead, invited them back in through the kind of play thats been synonymous with us all season. The soft underbelly strikes again. I admire your pluck in defending these poor passages of play, i just find it that more difficult to do. Edited July 17, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) So moving to sales we are gunna need a whole new midfield no doubt. Just guestimating I reckon we will receive around £140 million in sales Mings £30 million McGinn £25-30million Douglas Luiz £25million Grealish £60-72 million Trez loan El Ghazi £8-10million Kalinic & Nyland meh £0 Do we trust Suso to buy a new midfield for the championship slog... Glad it’s not my call! Edited July 17, 2020 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, thabucks said: So moving to sales we are gunna need a whole new midfield no doubt. Just guestimating I reckon we will receive around £140 million in sales Mings £30 million McGinn £25-30million Douglas Luiz £25million Grealish £60-72 million Trez loan El Ghazi £8-10million Kalinic & Nyland meh £0 Do we trust Suso to buy a new midfield for the championship slog... Glad it’s not my call! Many have seemingly trusted Suso (and co) in finding Mings, Hause, Guilbert, Targett, Luiz etc... so I have faith that he’ll (they’ll) find replacements if we go down. But I think he’ll be this seasons scapegoat and will be the first out the door. I genuinely think that our defence and midfield are now looking good, and that it’s only really the wingers & strikers that have let us down this season. El Ghazi was an obvious signing because we needed some continuity, so that leaves the signings of Trez and Wes being the only standout ‘bad’ ones, IMO. And, Wesley wasn’t playing particularly badly before his injury, the main downside was that he didn’t look like a £25m player. I feel like when I look at it that way, to only get a few signings wrong in a massssssssssiiiivveeeeee rebuild, isn’t actually all that bad. We’ve gotten relegated because we lost Heaton, Wesley and McGinn for 1/2 the season, in my opinion. But, as I say, I think Suso will be the scapegoat, just like Paddy Reilly was after signing a bunch of players that are now at the likes of Roma and PSG. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I think McGinn, Nakamba and Hourihane will stay. Jota will probably also stay as back up. Hopefully someone like Ramsey will get a chance from the bench. Need a new DM but there's enough going forward, we need far better out wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 We really need to get a good box to box midfielder with plenty of energy. Smith plays 433, the best team who play the same formation are Liverpool. Look at their midfield, all of them have bags and bags of energy, they can go for the press and if don’t win it have the energy to get back into position. Look at our guys, they go for the press and then out the game. They can’t get back. This then impacts how much we do press or whether we sit back. Bviously im not saying we can buy players as good as Liverpool, but we should be looking at similar attributes (If Smith stays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Bright Osayi-Samuel from Reading linked with Brugge. Be interested to see the fee because he's better than El Ghazi or Trez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 We should go for Kalvin Philips...oh wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 9 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said: We should go for Kalvin Philips...oh wait. Unlike us (or our fans I should say) Leeds stayed resolute in keeping their best players. Bar Jack, I reckon our best bit of transfer business should be to stay bullish about keeping ours. They are under contract, and bare responsibility for our plight. IMO they have an obligation to give us at least one more year to make it right. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Unlike us (or our fans I should say) Leeds stayed resolute in keeping their best players. Bar Jack, I reckon our best bit of transfer business should be to stay bullish about keeping ours. They are under contract, and bare responsibility for our plight. IMO they have an obligation to give us at least one more year to make it right. I don't get it. Unless City buy Luiz (which is 50/50, he'd be a great squaddie for them) I can't see anyone leaving but Grealish. Do we need money? Is the £60m minimum we'll get for Grealish not enough? Our players are all on very moderate PL wages. If someone offers us £50m for Mings and £50m for McGinn, with a capable recruitment team we can pad out the squad nicely with quality. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 Leeds only had one player that would have been in demand and that was Phillips and even then he'd only had one good season as of last summer, they actually lost their two other best players, Jansson and Roofe. Another difference is that Leeds had failed to get promoted which is different from being relegated from the premier league when players have had a taste of football at that level. If any of their players play well next season but they go down then they will be likely to lose those players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 This wage cap thing could really scupper us......I hope to god it doesn't get implemented. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: Bright Osayi-Samuel from Reading linked with Brugge. Be interested to see the fee because he's better than El Ghazi or Trez. You mean QPR, but agree in that we should be all over these type of deals. Appears to be less than £5m as well. Eze will go to this summer, but more likely to be £15-20m for him. Edited July 18, 2020 by ferguson1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 @Rob182has made some fantastic posts in this thread. I've never got the argument that things have got worse. No one seems to be able to explain where the baseline is for these players to make statements like that. Our performances earlier in the season seem to now be exaggerated in order to claim everything is getting worse. Its just not the case. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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