fightoffyour Posted November 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, HanoiVillan said: Off the top of my head, I can only think of six main reasons why 'not giving the vaccine to China or Russia' is a terrible idea: #1 - It is immoral to use the health of a country's population as a cudgel against its government. For the same reason, there are eg exemptions on medical supplies being included in trade sanctions with Iran. This might arguably be even more true in the case of a populace that has no meaningful say in the governing of its country, by the way. #2 - Back at the start of this, in the spring, China did in fact export vast quantities of PPE and other medical supplies to the rest of the world, and mostly did not place bad faith export restrictions on them. #3 - If we're playing 'great power politics', surely it's a bad idea to piss off the rising superpower. #4 - We have a large economic relationship with these countries. It would be much better for people to be able to travel for work, study and business, rather than continuing isolation. #5 - There are a zillion issues, beginning but absolutely not ending with global warming, which require global cooperation to solve, and the best way to build a habit of glabal cooperation is by cooperating globally. #6 - If we're going to pick episodes from a country's history and use that as a justification for harming their populace, why aren't 'The Boxer Rebellion' or 'The Malay Emergency' or any of a hundred other ignominious episodes reasons other countries shouldn't provide us assistance when we need it. Apart from that - smashing idea #7 - It's not really Chinese People's fault that a strain of flu happened to jump from animals to humans in China? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I'm really shocked at how many people are saying they wouldn't have a vaccine. People are worried that it's being rushed. I get that. But you have to trust scientists. If you don't then you can never trust the science behind anything. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, darrenm said: But you have to trust scientists. If you don't then you can never trust the science behind anything. Either scientists have discovered the secret of time travel or... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, darrenm said: I'm really shocked at how many people are saying they wouldn't have a vaccine. Are you listening to what they are actually saying or just hearing what you want to hear? People saying that they won't have a vaccine if they're offered it immediately or shortly after it's rushed through via an emergency licence are not anti-vaxxers or people who don't believe in science or who don't 'trust scientists and never believe the science behind anything'. Edited November 10, 2020 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 25 minutes ago, bickster said: Either scientists have discovered the secret of time travel or... 3 minutes ago, snowychap said: Are you listening to what they are actually saying or just hearing what you want to hear? People saying that they won't have a vaccine if they're offered it immediately or shortly after it's rushed through via an emergency licence are not anti-vaxxers or people who don't believe in science or who don't 'trust scientists and never believe the science behind anything'. So neither of you would have it if offered in say January? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: So neither of you would have it if offered in say January? I wouldn't. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I absolutely would. My age group puts me in the top 10. When I can have it I will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2020 If it allows [me] freedom to do football, gigs, travel...he’ll yeah! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I’m completely torn on it. I’m a top ten category and my job is putting me at a heightened risk. But the very idea of a rushed vaccine process? I’m also aware that as a male in my 50’s, lots of the risks probably don’t apply to me. I’m male, so the tests will have mostly been done on males. I’m unlikely to get pregnant, so I don’t have that concern. It’s not a no brainer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just now, chrisp65 said: I’m completely torn on it. I’m a top ten category and my job is putting me at a heightened risk. But the very idea of a rushed vaccine process? I’m also aware that as a male in my 50’s, lots of the risks probably don’t apply to me. I’m male, so the tests will have mostly been done on males. I’m unlikely to get pregnant, so I don’t have that concern. It’s not a no brainer. Unlikely, but not impossible hey. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, darrenm said: So neither of you would have it if offered in say January? This particular one? Probably not, the period of its efficacy is rather limited, even by it's own scientific claims. There are others very close to the same stage that are proported to have a much longer benefit But it should also be said that younger people do have a genuine concern as to the long term effects as they can't possibly be known, it's a genuine concern 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, bickster said: This particular one? Probably not, the period of its efficacy is rather limited, even by it's own scientific claims. There are others very close to the same stage that are proported to have a much longer benefit But it should also be said that younger people do have a genuine concern as to the long term effects as they can't possibly be known, it's a genuine concern I guess the first ones will only be offered to the most at risk anyway, and that's probably enough to allow restrictions to lift. I doubt it'll ever make it down below 50-60s / at risk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: I guess the first ones will only be offered to the most at risk anyway, and that's probably enough to allow restrictions to lift. I doubt it'll ever make it down below 50-60s / at risk. What on earth was the point of your question, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, darrenm said: I guess the first ones will only be offered to the most at risk anyway, and that's probably enough to allow restrictions to lift. I doubt it'll ever make it down below 50-60s / at risk. The initial order for this vaccine is 40 mil doses, the population is 65 million. I reckon the risk register will get as low as bald, you'll get one if you want it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, bickster said: The initial order for this vaccine is 40 mil doses, the population is 65 million. I reckon the risk register will get as low as bald, you'll get one if you want it Is that accounting for having to take a minimum of 2 doses for it to be effective? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted November 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted November 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Unlikely, but not impossible hey. If it can happen to Schwarzenegger it can happen to anybody 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, snowychap said: What on earth was the point of your question, then? I don't understand. I don't know how old you or Bicks are. And I said I doubt it would make it further than 50-60/at risk. And I also said 'if it was offered to you' making it hypothetical. So I'm really confused about what point you're trying to make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, bickster said: The initial order for this vaccine is 40 mil doses, the population is 65 million. I reckon the risk register will get as low as bald, you'll get one if you want it I'll be first in the queue https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7373684/ "Male balding is a major risk factor for severe COVID-19" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted November 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Is that accounting for having to take a minimum of 2 doses for it to be effective? I assumed that was 40 million doses as in enough for 40 mil people. Though I confesss it's not something I'd rightly considered when I was intending to have a little fun at Darren's expense. You may have a point there But whoi knows, if he gets two doses his hairt might grow back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, darrenm said: I don't understand. I don't know how old you or Bicks are. And I said I doubt it would make it further than 50-60/at risk. And I also said 'if it was offered to you' making it hypothetical. So I'm really confused about what point you're trying to make. You've been on this site for twelve years, Darren. And you're not an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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