Generic Virus Thread

[Genie]

1 minute ago, AndyM3000 said:

So you can boost yourself back to 95% protection rate against this new variant but that will tail off fairly rapidly and by 10 weeks after you are going to be back down to 50%. Do we just keep taking boosters every 2-3 months now?

I think we’ll have to see how things are in the Spring. If it’s not causes a huge influx of patients into hospital, or cases rates drop right off then no need for another booster. 

 

4 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

The Gov/Media reporting also make it sound like the first two jabs don't actually do anything against the new variant and the booster is the most important part.

Yes, it seems that way. Mainly I think due to the fact that most people had the first 2 doses several months ago. 

[trekka]

7 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

So you can boost yourself back to 95% protection rate against this new variant but that will tail off fairly rapidly and by 10 weeks after you are going to be back down to 50%. Do we just keep taking boosters every 2-3 months now?

The Gov/Media reporting also make it sound like the first two jabs don't actually do anything against the new variant and the booster is the most important part.

Not sure where you got the 95% protection from following the booster.  It is about 71% if you had 2 Astrazenica jabs previously or about 76% if you had Pfizer. 

Unfortunately the data does suggest that there is minimal protection against this variant (estimates are close to ZERO protection from the AZ jabs without the booster) .

Edited December 13, 2021 by trekka

[sidcow]

4 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

The Gov/Media reporting also make it sound like the first two jabs don't actually do anything against the new variant and the booster is the most important part.

Well yes, because that's what the scientists who have qualifications and have looked at who is getting ill, examined the situation and run their scenarios have said.  

Would it help people if The Government said everything is rosy and no need to do anything, but scientists said it's of absolute vial importance to get your third jab.  Would that help because we've taken the Government out of the equation?

[AndyM3000]

1 minute ago, trekka said:

Not sure where you got the 95% protection from following the booster.  It is about 71% if you had 2 Astrazenica jabs previously or about 76% if you had Pfizer. 

Unfortunately the data does suggest that there is minimal protection against this variant (estimates are close to ZERO protection from the AZ jabs without the booster) .

From something you linked actually which I will post below, although I may not fully be understanding it, happy to be corrected.

[sidcow]

It seems to me that a lot of people are struggling with the concept that a third jab is actually needed.

The problem the new variant is MASSIVELY mutated from what the original was, it's very different.

Vaccines WILL work but ONLY JUST.  By the skin of their teeth they can just about deal with it.   But people were mainly jabbed quite a while ago, so the vaccine in their system which at full strength can just about deal with this is now weak so needs boosting to a level where it can do it's job.

We're not going to need them every couple of months because the disease will start to wane naturally in Spring as it does, look at how low numbers were last spring and summer.

Next year we will get boosters again in the Autumn but they will be boosters based on the strains which are prevalent at the time, and any mutations which occur will only be a strain or two removed from what it was designed for.

You have to remember that all vaccines currently were developed for the very first strain which was identified 2 years go.  They've not been adjusted for beta or delta or Omicron, they are 2 years out of date.

From Spring onwards it will be more like flu where the vaccines are only 6 months behind and are based on the strains they pretty much know are coming.

Edited December 13, 2021 by sidcow

[trekka]

6 minutes ago, AndyM3000 said:

From something you linked actually which I will post below, although I may not fully be understanding it, happy to be corrected.

Ah, no worries. You are right actually going by the upper bound in the graph (if Pfizer) but it is very much an upper bound.  I've been going by the data table and I guess we still don't know enough.  The thing I worry about is that most people I know only had the AZ vaccine.  

Sorry if I'm being a bit dramatic about it.

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

I am double jabbed. I "respect the virus". I tell my close ones (the most volnourable ones) to look after themselves, and take precaution. I also would strongly advise anyone not jabbed to do so.

I don't read social media (VT is the exception). 

But I don't think everyone who doesn't get vaxxed is selfish, an idiot, or a granny killer. I also think many of the precautions taken across the world go very much against civil liberties. I'm not talking about mask wearing. I am terrified that Boris can tell a single mother that she has to close her business because of the virus. This is a big alarm bell for me, and isn't right.

But what if that single mother, who barely hangs on, now sees Boris having an Xmas party last year? 

I wouldn't ridicule someone who questions the current virus status quo, there are various different people out there with different life circumstances. Not everyone against child vaccination is a social media right wing weirdo, so let's not treat them that way.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself. 
I'm double jabbed and will get the booster in a few days time but I'd by lying if I said I wasn't nervous about the vaccine, the side effects and the long term effects of it. 

Maybe someone could put my mind to rest!

[Rodders]

Just now, Delphinho123 said:

Couldn't have put it better myself. 
I'm double jabbed and will get the booster in a few days time but I'd by lying if I said I wasn't nervous about the vaccine, the side effects and the long term effects of it. 

Maybe someone could put my mind to rest!

 

scientists and government aren't going to nobble tens of millions of people. No steps have been skipped, or ignored, there has just been a huge imperative to prioritise it's development. Whereas in normal times it might be one of many developments a lab is looking at, now it has been laser focused on this. A lawsuit for malpractice would bankrupt business' and governments and eviscerate all trust in vaccines in the future. The cost of failure would be extraordinary. The public nature and scrutiny ensures the science is being peer-reviewed by people who know what they're talking about ( i.e. not some **** on youtube ) at levels not comparable with anything else. And if anything this makes things worse, it heightens every last little concern and amplifies tiny anomalies. It found the initial concern with blood clotting in astra zeneca, however tiny the proportion was, that was the process doing it's job. The greater risk was and still is covid. 

Individuals might indeed be unlucky and get some rough side effects, but as people are individual and different, any chemical, synthetic creation is not going to affect billions of people equally.  Some people might get a seeringly bad case of the flu, or a bad reaction to anti-biotics or to penicillin but it does not discredit the fact the  preventative measure for the vast majority of people the vaccine, for both individual and community is the best option than chancing one's luck. there are far, far fare more stories of people chancing their luck and failing quite horribly by not getting vaccinated than there are of side effects causing serious problems. 

 

[magnkarl]

We have to disassociate Boris with getting jabbed. The vaccines helps millions, what Boris the father of many does is a problem that I'm sure his own party and Labour will deal with. Boris had a strong reaction to the first wave, maybe he'll have another rude awakening to omicron?

[AshVilla]

1 hour ago, Wezbid said:

I've still never had it after all this time, despite working for a supermarket throughout the whole time, sharing vans with multiple drivers and my fiancée working in the hospital. 

Then you see people catching it multiple times. 

The joys of being a hermit and when I am out and about, staying out of people's space or moving away if they get in mine. 

Its possible you have had it but were asymptomatic so wouldn't have seen the need to test yourself and wouldn't have known.

This virus is a really sneaky bugger.

[est1874]

 

11 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

We have to disassociate Boris with getting jabbed. The vaccines helps millions, what Boris the father of many does is a problem that I'm sure his own party and Labour will deal with. Boris had a strong reaction to the first wave, maybe he'll have another rude awakening to omicron?

False equivalence is the language of anti-vaxxers and their ilk.

[brommy]

8 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Couldn't have put it better myself. 
I'm double jabbed and will get the booster in a few days time but I'd by lying if I said I wasn't nervous about the vaccine, the side effects and the long term effects of it. 

Maybe someone could put my mind to rest!

If you are happy to believe something posted on the internet, take this advice - stop being nervous and have the vaccine. It's safe for you to take.

If you want more than unqualified advice from the internet and social media, the data is available for you to review. 

If one can properly grasp the concept of risk and probabilities (not patronising but some people genuinely can't or don't want to), I believe the data clearly demonstrates you should stop being nervous and have the vaccine. It's significantly safer than not having the vaccine.

[sidcow]

41 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Couldn't have put it better myself. 
I'm double jabbed and will get the booster in a few days time but I'd by lying if I said I wasn't nervous about the vaccine, the side effects and the long term effects of it. 

Maybe someone could put my mind to rest!

Yes I can.  There are absolutely no signs of any major problematic side effects, at least not in any numbers which make for a meaningful issue.  Astra Zeneca had some well documented issues and even those were tiny compared to the number of lives saved, but nevertheless as soon as viable alternatives were available in great numbers the UK quietly dropped that vaccine.  They've had other vaccines than Pfizer and Moderna to choose from in the last 6 months or so but have been happy to keep using those.  

Since the early trials they have now been in peoples arms for nearly 2 years.  And have been in the arms of tens of millions of people (in fact hundreds of millions?) for 6 months to a year of real world vaccinations. 

If anyone can point to any data from those original trials from 2 years ago to show new long term issues I've not heard anything.  Funny really because it's something I would expect the anti vax brigade to start making stuff up about, they seem to have left the original trials alone now.  Maybe they don't have the imagination to think back that far.

I've also not heard anything about actual fertility issues in women though this seems to be another thing regularly trotted out by the heard it on the internet brigade.

There are however hundreds of thousands of people dying from extremely well known and understood dangers from a deadly virus.  Plus people who don't actually lose their lives many examples of people living with crippling long term conditions.

Hope that helps!

Edited December 13, 2021 by sidcow

[Delphinho123]

9 minutes ago, brommy said:

If you are happy to believe something posted on the internet, take this advice - stop being nervous and have the vaccine. It's safe for you to take.

If you want more than unqualified advice from the internet and social media, the data is available for you to review. 

If one can properly grasp the concept of risk and probabilities (not patronising but some people genuinely can't or don't want to), I believe the data clearly demonstrates you should stop being nervous and have the vaccine. It's significantly safer than not having the vaccine.

That’s what I have done. And I’ll get the booster, but it’s sometimes hard not to listen to the noise surrounding the vaccine and the risk/reward for my age group in getting it (30-40).

Either way, I hope football isn’t cancelled again!

[Delphinho123]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes I can.  There are absolutely no signs of any major problematic side effects, at least not in any numbers which make for a meaningful issue.  Astra Zeneca had some well documented issues and even those were tiny compared to the number of lives saved, but nevertheless as soon as viable alternatives were available in great numbers the UK quietly dropped that vaccine.  They've had other vaccines than Pfizer and Moderna to choose from in the last 6 months or so but have been happy to keep using those.  

Since the early trials they have now been in peoples arms for nearly 2 years.  And have been in the arms of tens of millions of people (in fact hundreds of millions?) for 6 months to a year of real world vaccinations. 

If anyone can point to any data from those original trials from 2 years ago to show new long term issues I've not heard anything.  Funny really because it's something I would expect the anti vax brigade to start making stuff up about, they seem to have left the original trials alone now.  Maybe they don't have the imagination to think back that far.

I've also not heard anything about actual fertility issues in women though this seems to be another thing regularly trotted out by the heard it on the internet brigade.

There are however hundreds of thousands of people dying from extremely well known and understood dangers from a deadly virus.  Plus people who don't actually lose there lives many examples of people living with crippling long term conditions.

Hope that helps!

Cheers mate. 

[Wezbid]

26 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

Its possible you have had it but were asymptomatic so wouldn't have seen the need to test yourself and wouldn't have known.

This virus is a really sneaky bugger.

Possible but my better half hasn't had it, neither have my parents or sister who are the people I do see up close. Surely we can't all be asymptomatic. 

I'd just like players and staff in general to act like just because they don't have symptoms, doesn't mean you can't be carrying it. I deliver to many OAP's and vulnerable people who can't get out and about and plenty of people who are out mixing with others all day so as much as many people like to mock people wearing a mask outside, I'd like to think I haven't passed it on to others if I have been a carrier.

[magnkarl]

27 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Yes I can.  There are absolutely no signs of any major problematic side effects, at least not in any numbers which make for a meaningful issue.  Astra Zeneca had some well documented issues and even those were tiny compared to the number of lives saved, but nevertheless as soon as viable alternatives were available in great numbers the UK quietly dropped that vaccine.  They've had other vaccines than Pfizer and Moderna to choose from in the last 6 months or so but have been happy to keep using those.  

Since the early trials they have now been in peoples arms for nearly 2 years.  And have been in the arms of tens of millions of people (in fact hundreds of millions?) for 6 months to a year of real world vaccinations. 

If anyone can point to any data from those original trials from 2 years ago to show new long term issues I've not heard anything.  Funny really because it's something I would expect the anti vax brigade to start making stuff up about, they seem to have left the original trials alone now.  Maybe they don't have the imagination to think back that far.

I've also not heard anything about actual fertility issues in women though this seems to be another thing regularly trotted out by the heard it on the internet brigade.

There are however hundreds of thousands of people dying from extremely well known and understood dangers from a deadly virus.  Plus people who don't actually lose their lives many examples of people living with crippling long term conditions.

Hope that helps!

The numbers are even stronger advocates for taking the vaccine than what you suggest, that's even couting in the AZ and JJ vaccines. It's now been administered close to 8 billion times. That's the largest amounts of vaccines ever administered. The data shows that you need to get down to the third of fourth decimal to find side effects, and even further for serious side effects.

Get vaccinated, it saves lives and helps the NHS.

Edited December 13, 2021 by magnkarl

[Wezbid]

In regards to people worried about fertility, my fiancée is 31, I'm 36 (approaching 37), she's had her 2 jabs and a booster, I've had 2 jabs. 

We're approaching 10 weeks of her being pregnant. It will be the first child for the both of us. She was a bit worried that she wouldn't be able to get pregnant combining her age and the rumours about the jab but I will say that it didn't take long at all for her to fall pregnant once we actively started trying for a baby. This is after she's had 3 jabs.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Wezbid

[sidcow]

5 minutes ago, Wezbid said:

In regards to people worried about fertility, my fiancée is 31, I'm 36 (approaching 37), she's had her 2 jabs and a booster, I've had 2 jabs. 

We're approaching 10 weeks of her being pregnant. It will be the first child for the both of us. She was a bit worried that she wouldn't be able to get pregnant combining her age and the rumours about the jab but I will say that it didn't take long at all for her to fall pregnant once we actively started trying for a baby. This is after she's had 3 jabs.

Congratulations you dirty old dog

[sidcow]

First death in the UK of this completely harmless Omicron variant today.