Generic Virus Thread

[Genie]

9 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

 

Once all adults have been vaccinated, what possible better situation is there, vis a vis covid? How could we be in a better position?

I can think of one way; there could be an over-the-counter medicine that cured it. Other than that, vaccinating the population is as good as it's going to get. People who talk about still needing restrictions after that are not proposing an actual end to ever needing restrictions.

I agree with your post, my post was just in reply to the messages about “if we’re vaccinated then foreign travel should be opened up”. We aren’t vaccinated against everything so some restrictions will remain. I don’t think people will be allowed to go to Brazil or South Africa any time soon for example.

[Genie]

9 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

Johnson is full of shit and his words mean f all. His actions speak louder than his words and if he was judged on them he'd be nowhere near number 10. 

As for the EU they have f'd up and are now trying to cover their own arses. 

Yes, he’s full of shit. I just find the way each other acknowledge the other funny.

Boris: Our friends in Europe

Europe: The **** over there have riddled us with a new strain.

[sidcow]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56479462

Covid vaccine: US trial of AstraZeneca jab confirms safety

Results from the long-awaited US trial of the Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid vaccine are out and confirm that the shot is both safe and highly effective.

Quote

More than 32,000 volunteers took part, mostly in America, but also in Chile and Peru.

The vaccine was 79% effective against stopping symptomatic Covid disease and 100% effective at preventing people from falling seriously ill.

And there were no safety issues regarding blood clots.

Quote

This new trial data may also prove useful in reassuring people about how well the vaccine works to protect the elderly against Covid-19 illness.

Several countries initially would not authorise the use of the vaccine in adults over 65, citing lack of evidence.

Around a fifth of the volunteers in this trial were over 65 and the vaccine - given as two doses, four weeks apart - provided as much protection to them as to younger age groups.

Quote

Lead investigator of the Oxford University trial of the vaccine, Prof Andrew Pollard said: "'These results are great news as they show the remarkable efficacy of the vaccine in a new population and are consistent with the results from Oxford-led trials.

"We can expect strong impact against Covid-19 across all ages and for people of all different backgrounds from widespread use of the vaccine."

 

Edited March 22, 2021 by sidcow

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

I agree with your post, my post was just in reply to the messages about “if we’re vaccinated then foreign travel should be opened up”. We aren’t vaccinated against everything so some restrictions will remain. I don’t think people will be allowed to go to Brazil or South Africa any time soon for example.

You're kinda missing his point though - those variants can and do spread. The SA variant is already established in Europe, for example (even after most countries put in a travel ban to SA). New variants will continue to evolve unless covid is eradicated, which is impossible at this point.

So what's the plan? Do you never allow anyone to go anywhere because they might import a new covid variant back to the UK?

Because if that isn't your plan, you'll have to accept that any new variant will eventually end up here too. In which case there's no point having the restrictions.

[blandy]

6 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

New variants will continue to evolve unless covid is eradicated, which is impossible at this point.

So what's the plan? Do you never allow anyone to go anywhere because they might import a new covid variant back to the UK?

At the moment 41% of the uk population has had a dose of vaccine.  The other 59% remains unprotected. The most vulnerable are pretty much all protected.

it’s not about (IMO) “never allow anyone to go anywhere”, it’s about protecting everyone who is at all vulnerable of hospitalisation from it. Once that’s happened and hospitals are able to return to all the delayed hip replacements, cancer treatments and so on. - there’s a 4 million backlog of people needing stuff done. - then letting people IN to the country without quarantine seems low risk. I don’t think stopping people leaving is the right approach, even now. The last thing needed to resume normality is a working track and trace system, so anyone with lurgie plus unvaxxed contacts can be isolated.

Cases will rise because of the schools opening up. The more people are vaccinated the less damaging the cases will be. By talking it step by step each easing of restrictions can be monitored for adverse impact on hospitalisations and deaths, before the next level of relaxation. It’s a really good way to proceed if you don’t want more lockdowns. It may lead to holidays etc later in the year, if other nations get themselves into a similar situation of a largely protected population, or if those nations accept vaccinated tourists or confirmed negative tourists.

[magnkarl]

2 more nurses dead from suspected side-effects of AstraZeneca's vaccine in Norway yesterday. Low platelet count mixed with clots found in all 3 dead within 2-11 days of taking the vaccine.. In a small country with relative few deaths from corona (650 or so), 3 dead young health workers just after taking the vaccine is not good optics. Oh, and before people start banging the anti-EU drum, Norway isn't part of the union.

Edited March 22, 2021 by magnkarl

[StefanAVFC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56475807

Quote

People may need to wear face coverings and socially distance for several years until we return to normality, a leading epidemiologist has predicted.

Mary Ramsay, the head of immunisation at Public Health England, said basic measures could be in place until other countries successfully roll out jabs.

She also said a return of big spectator events required careful monitoring and clear instructions about staying safe.

The defence secretary has not ruled out the foreign holiday ban being extended.

Ben Wallace told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show that booking a break abroad now would be "premature" and "potentially risky".

 

This is just insanely irresponsible.

I'm starting to think us being locked down, or having some sort of restrictions is a epidemiologist's wet dream. 

[Seat68]

It is what it is, its just a mask and keeping distance. Its where we are now and its ingrained for me at least. 

[Panto_Villan]

25 minutes ago, blandy said:

At the moment 41% of the uk population has had a dose of vaccine.  The other 59% remains unprotected. The most vulnerable are pretty much all protected.

it’s not about (IMO) “never allow anyone to go anywhere”, it’s about protecting everyone who is at all vulnerable of hospitalisation from it. Once that’s happened and hospitals are able to return to all the delayed hip replacements, cancer treatments and so on. - there’s a 4 million backlog of people needing stuff done. - then letting people IN to the country without quarantine seems low risk. I don’t think stopping people leaving is the right approach, even now. The last thing needed to resume normality is a working track and trace system, so anyone with lurgie plus unvaxxed contacts can be isolated.

Cases will rise because of the schools opening up. The more people are vaccinated the less damaging the cases will be. By talking it step by step each easing of restrictions can be monitored for adverse impact on hospitalisations and deaths, before the next level of relaxation. It’s a really good way to proceed if you don’t want more lockdowns. It may lead to holidays etc later in the year, if other nations get themselves into a similar situation of a largely protected population, or if those nations accept vaccinated tourists or confirmed negative tourists.

Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying here (although I think the point at which I'd allow holidays is probably a bit earlier than you would). I'm not advocating allowing all travel to commence immediately; I agree we should vaccinate more of the population first.

I was just making the point that we can't not allow travel due to the risk of covid mutations. Once vulnerable people are vaccinated, covid mutations are just something we're going to have to live with unless we're willing to live in a permanent state of lockdown for the rest of our lives.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Panto_Villan

[markavfc40]

17 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

It is what it is, its just a mask and keeping distance. Its where we are now and its ingrained for me at least. 

It is not just a mask and keeping distance though is it. If you have to keep a couple of metres away from other people then that means you can forget any mass gatherings, forget getting 40k back into Villa Park, forget being able to go a night club and have a boogie etc etc. Some of these things might not matter to some people but to many people they will.

Restrictions of having to wear a mask and keep a couple of metres distance from others, regardless of how ingrained it has become to some people, is not anything like getting back to normality. It is a million miles from it. 

[Genie]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

You're kinda missing his point though - those variants can and do spread. The SA variant is already established in Europe, for example (even after most countries put in a travel ban to SA). New variants will continue to evolve unless covid is eradicated, which is impossible at this point.

So what's the plan? Do you never allow anyone to go anywhere because they might import a new covid variant back to the UK?

Because if that isn't your plan, you'll have to accept that any new variant will eventually end up here too. In which case there's no point having the restrictions.

It’s not all or nothing is my point. If we were going to resign ourselves to the fact any new variants are going to run riot over here then we may aswell crack on now with international travel and take it on the chin. It kind of makes the last 12 months a waste of time and energy.

It could and should be allowed, in certain places, in certain situations with certain safeguards.

[Genie]

17 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

I was just making the point that we can't not allow travel due to the risk of covid mutations. Once vulnerable people are vaccinated, covid mutations are just something we're going to have to live with unless we're willing to live in a permanent state of lockdown for the rest of our lives.

Once the vast majority of the UK, Europe, the world gets vaccinated then the mutations currently tearing through will reduce. It’s not about “the rest of our lives” as it will become more and more under control over time.

If the SA variant comes to the UK in significant numbers then we’re back to square one and the 27m vaccinated people will be getting very little protection from their jabs. 

[Seat68]

5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

It is not just a mask and keeping distance though is it. If you have to keep a couple of metres away from other people then that means you can forget any mass gatherings, forget getting 40k back into Villa Park, forget being able to go a night club and have a boogie etc etc. Some of these things might not matter to some people but to many people they will.

Restrictions of having to wear a mask and keep a couple of metres distance from others, regardless of how ingrained it has become to some people, is not anything like getting back to normality. It is a million miles from it. 

It will vary what is acceptable for everyone, a single voice can’t represent the palette of views regarding restrictions and I don’t represent anyone elses views other than my own. Personally I can live with it. 

[sidcow]

48 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

2 more nurses dead from suspected side-effects of AstraZeneca's vaccine in Norway yesterday. Low platelet count mixed with clots found in all 3 dead within 2-11 days of taking the vaccine.. In a small country with relative few deaths from corona (650 or so), 3 dead young health workers just after taking the vaccine is not good optics. Oh, and before people start banging the anti-EU drum, Norway isn't part of the union.

Only Norway, only nurses. 

If something isn't amiss here my name is Dirk Bogarde. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Only Norway, only nurses. 

If something isn't amiss here my name is Dirk Bogarde. 

Yes, something missing in this puzzle. Only young, Norwegian nurses affected? 

[Genie]

I have a feeling the “all restrictions lifted on 12th June” is gonna be like the 5 day Christmas festival that Boris promised.

Everyone sensible behind the scenes had their head in their hands when he said it. 

[sidcow]

Meanwhile 10,000,000 doses administered here and nothing similar at all. 

[Seat68]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

Yes, something missing in this puzzle. Only young, Norwegian nurses affected? 

This is the start of the zombie apocalypse my daughter tried to warn me about. 

[brommy]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Only Norway, only nurses. 

If something isn't amiss here my name is Dirk Bogarde. 

Either it’s the same story being recycled or a very dodgy batch (perhaps via a storage issue or sabotage) which presumably will stop being used if it hasn’t all been used up.

[mjmooney]

3 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

This is the start of the zombie apocalypse my daughter tried to warn me about. 

If they're all Norwegian nurses, bring it on. 

When I was a little boy I had to spend a few days in hospital with suspected appendicitis. I fell totally in love with the blonde Norwegian nurse who looked after me.