The Royal Family

[mjmooney]

14 minutes ago, sidcow said:

If I was striking up a conversation with a fellow traveller in a car who had a foreign sounding accent I would ask where they were originally from.

I do this all the time. Perhaps I shouldn't, but so far, no-one has ever responded negatively. 

But a foreign accent virtually always means that person wasn't born here. Skin colour/ethnicity is rather different. People should really have got used to the idea that British people don't have to be white. 

[sidcow]

3 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm not taking sides in this, and if I was, I'd be with the black lady, BUT... 

This conversation could have gone a different way: 

Q. "Where are you from?" 

A. "Well, I'm British, born in London. I haven't researched my family tree in any great detail, but my parents came here from the West Indies in the 1950s. Out of interest, where are you from?"  

 

 

Funnily enough I was just having those same thoughts.

I've never suffered racism (other than a bit of "Welsh Bashing" when I was at Junior school and tried to intervene in some "P***** Bashing" that was being suffered by my mate at the time).

However I'd like to think that if I had the same circumstances I would be aware it was an extremely upper class totally out of touch lady asking the question and would have answered it in just that way.  Firmly let her know I am British and was born here, but explain where my family were originally from as that's probably what she was trying to get at.

I'm pretty sure the whole incident could have gone a different way.  Then again I've never been interrogated by an out of touch super toff so maybe you would just bite your tongue, seethe and complain about it afterwards.

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, sidcow said:

Then again I've never been interrogated by an out of touch super toff so maybe you would just bite your tongue, seethe and complain about it afterwards.

This is it. It's easy for me to say that she might have indulged the silly old bat and made allowances, but really, why should she? As an old, white male, I haven't had to put up with a lifetime of being routinely patronised, insulted and abused, so I'm not best qualified to judge. 

[sidcow]

Speaking of which I have an Uber Welsh surname and despite being born and raised in Birmingham I have been asked if I am Welsh probably hundreds of times.  I've never once thought it rude,

[sidcow]

2 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

 As an old, white male, I haven't had to put up with a lifetime of being routinely patronised, insulted and abused

Best strap yourself in then because right now, you are the only fair game in town 

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

I tend to use the term 'racism' to refer to actively hostile treatment of people based on race, e.g. violence, abusive language, exclusion from employment, segregation, denial of opportunities, etc. 

This is what I would call racial predjudice. Which often leads to overt racist behaviour, but does not neccessarily do so. Very of us are totally free of - almost unconscious - misconceptions about other cultures. 

I don't think this posh bint was knowingly being abusive. But at the end of the day, what is or is not offensive, is - quite rightly - defined by the victim. The charity lady was offended, and I don't blame her. I would be, too. 

 

59 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

It is racism, but we're talking about an 83 year old ignorant woman, who is completely unaware that she herself is an institutionalised slave, that probably forgets her name and pisses herself regularly. The only reason this is getting traction is because of who's slave it is. As per usual the palace are tripping over their woke selves trying to play the mediator when it's their institution that molded this individual. 

 

Both fair - but let's not dismiss this as "bless her, the old dear".

[bobzy]

Oh, and I often ask people where they're from if they have some kind of accent (be it Scouse or West Country or French or whatever).  As @sidcow says, it's just a conversation starter.  I've never considered it rude, at all!

[tomav84]

38 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Wow.  Never seen it as a rude question.

If I meet a Brit abroad one of the first questions that will be asked from me or them is whereabouts you are from.

If I was striking up a conversation with a fellow traveller in a car who had a foreign sounding accent I would ask where they were originally from.

It's just conversation innit?

For all we know this posh Lady may have travelled extensively in Africa and The west Indies and was trying to establish her heritage so she could talk to her about that country/region as she knows it, but went about the conversation very clumsily.  I know that's probably not the case but it may be.

Strange because most people are normally proud of their heritage and actually like to talk about it.   

it's all about context i guess. the northern sounding lad on holiday would (probably) not be in any way offended by you asking him where he's from

the romanian cab driver that probably gets asked 20 times a day where he's from and has potentially (or probably) been the subject of abuse in his career by some pissed up UKIP voter who thinks that "he's stolen british cabbies' jobs" would not always think it to be an innocent question

[avfc1982am]

Just now, bobzy said:

 

Both fair - but let's not dismiss this as "bless her, the old dear".

Nobody is doing that. But let's not vilify some old bat because it's fashionable. As others have said, it's doubtful she even realised what she was saying would be seen as racism. 

 

[Seat68]

22 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Speaking of which I have an Uber Welsh surname and despite being born and raised in Birmingham I have been asked if I am Welsh probably hundreds of times.  I've never once thought it rude,

Irish surname. Always asked or assumed to be Irish, which I am not. Currently No Irish, no dog. 

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, Seat68 said:

Irish surname. Always asked or assumed to be Irish, which I am not. Currently No Irish, no dog. 

Irish surname (as you know). Never been asked. Accent trumps name. When I first moved to Leeds I was more than once asked if I was Australian. Which I thought was weird, because Strine is nothing like Brummie. More like Cockney, I'd say. 

[bobzy]

57 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Nobody is doing that. But let's not vilify some old bat because it's fashionable. As others have said, it's doubtful she even realised what she was saying would be seen as racism. 

No-one is vilifying her (because it's fashionable?! **** lol).  She happens to be racist, she's stepped down.

If anything, the reverse is happening.  "Mountain out of a mole hill" type stuff.

Edited December 1, 2022 by bobzy

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, sidcow said:

Speaking of which I have an Uber Welsh surname and despite being born and raised in Birmingham I have been asked if I am Welsh probably hundreds of times.  I've never once thought it rude,

Cridlington? 

[Rustibrooks]

As a minority myself, I know what it's like to be pressed by someone because I don't look like I would be British. I was born and raised in London, I've had convo's with people much older than me that have questioned if I am really British. It is offensive for me, depending on how it is done. If it's a convo starter and we are just getting to know each other then it's no biggie to me. Normally I fully explain my heritage, however if I've done that and I was told 'I'm not British' or something to that degree then I'll find offense in it. 

I somewhat understand though that there's a section of the elderly that are out of touch, they'll have certain views of me and other minorities etc. There's some that will say things that may have been the norm when they were younger, but are not acceptable now however they don't mean any malice towards you. I try to teach the latter about correcting things, so they don't offend someone else.

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, Rustibrooks said:

 There's some that will say things that may have been the norm when they were younger, but are not acceptable now however they don't mean any malice towards you. I try to teach the latter about correcting things, so they don't offend someone else.

I would genuinely love to know if Lady Hussey (sniggers) understands what she's done wrong and what she was aiming for when pressing for an answer. 

Hopefully she's learned from this. 

I'm fairly convinced she's just made a mistake here because she's been in an official role for years. I'm pretty sure if she'd said unsuitable stuff before she'd have been shuffled quietly aside by now. 

There wasn't too much they could do about Phil The Greek but they can sideline an underling showing signs that she could cause some severe embarrassment. 

[DCJonah]

I don't think asking her where she's from is the major issue. If you read the conversation, she answered that she was British and this daft old racist just couldn't let it go. 

The age excuse is a weak one for me. 

 

[Enda]

If you’re a minority “Where are you from?” = “You’re not from here.”

[tomav84]

28 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I don't think asking her where she's from is the major issue. If you read the conversation, she answered that she was British and this daft old racist just couldn't let it go. 

The age excuse is a weak one for me. 

 

if anything it's worse. some 12 year old kid who doesn't know better could be excused for using language he/she has heard on the playground but it irks me when people say things like "they're from a different era"...unless they've been in a coma since the 70s it's no excuse

[bickster]

45 minutes ago, Enda said:

If you’re a minority “Where are you from?” = “You’re not from here.”

Exactly

[MakemineVanilla]

7 hours ago, bickster said:

It's a pet peeve of mine when I'm out working "Where are you from"

From a complete stranger as an opening gambit to a conversation its just a f***ing rude question, regardless of any racial issue. Add the race element in and yes, it's racism, especially in the way it was done in this instance

Even without the race element it's othering. Get to know someone a bit first before you ask the question because it shouldn't be what defines a  brief meeting.

If that question is one of the first asked, I don't want to get to know you.

Touchy bugger, ain't ya!

How can you tell them what a fantastically interesting place they come from, if you don't know?

Although, I have to admit that owning up to coming from Birmingham comes with a certain amount of risk, especialy if they happen to be a drunken greengrocer from Luton.

It's enough to make you want to take elocution lessons.

 

Edited December 1, 2022 by MakemineVanilla