Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 7 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Mark Duggan. You need to expand on that. What is your point? A known criminal who possessed a gun was shot by Police after he ran from a Police challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 6 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: My point being, Armed Response officers are not easily held accountable for their actions. Criminal convictions require evidence beyond reasonable doubt. It's better that 99 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to prison. It's better that 99 guilty Police Officers go free than 1 innocent Police officer goes to prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 3 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: You need to expand on that. What is your point? A known criminal who possessed a gun was shot by Police after he ran from a Police challenge. According to the evidence of the taxi driver he was shot running away from police and shot whilst on the floor. Once again, ample proof that armed police are not easily held responsible for their actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 5 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Criminal convictions require evidence beyond reasonable doubt. It's better that 99 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man goes to prison. It's better that 99 guilty Police Officers go free than 1 innocent Police officer goes to prison. Luckily, it's not so easy for police to frame suspects anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 32 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: According to the evidence of the taxi driver he was shot running away from police and shot whilst on the floor. Once again, ample proof that armed police are not easily held responsible for their actions. According to the evidence of the taxi driver he was shot getting out of the car. According to the taxi driver he fell 2 to 3 feet from the car. According to the Police he got out of the car and appeared to reach for a gun in his belt. Those accounts appear consistent. The Taxi driver was not in a position where he could see Duggan's actions. He certainly couldn't have said his hands never went near his waist. Known criminal known to be armed getting out of a car and reaching towards his belt = Dead criminal. Known criminal known to be armed staying in a car with his hands in the air = Criminal Edited July 28 by Mandy Lifeboats Spelling mistake 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: According to the evidence of the taxi driver he was shot getting out of the car. According to the taxi driver he fell 2 to 3 feet from the car. According to the Police he got out of the car and appeared to reach for a gun in his belt. Those accounts appear consistent. The Taxi driver was not in a position where he could see Duggan's actions. He certainly couldn't have said his hands never went near his waist. Known criminal known to be armed getting out of a car and reaching towards his belt = Dead criminal. Known criminal known to be armed staying in a car with his hands in the air = Criminal There were other eye witnesses with conflicting accounts . It's not always as it looks. So who to believe, but good luck in trying to prove the armed police were in the wrong. Even the firearms officer involved in the Azelle Rodney death avoided prosecution. A man who was dubbed a serial killer by one of his own officer's. . Edited July 28 by sheepyvillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 43 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Even the firearms officer involved in the Azelle Rodney death avoided prosecution. A man who was dubbed a serial killer by one of his own officer's. . Your post is misleading but I don't think you intended to do so. The officer that killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted. A jury found him not guilty. If the evidence isn't there to prove a crime beyond reasonable doubt then the accused is hot guilty. That applies to all. Including Police Officers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 17 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: One of the sad things is - if he hadn't kicked / stamped on the guy on the ground and the police had handled the situation perfectly, I imagine nobody other than those present in the airport terminal would have had any idea that this even happened. Is it major news when a police officer gets their nose broken? I've said in other threads a couple of times over the last five years. I've got absolutely no idea what the attraction would be to being a police officer. They do an absolutely heroic job on very normal pay, perhaps even Lower than normal pay. And like others have said, it'll likely be the policeman who is jailed or loses their livelihood here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 25 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Your post is misleading but I don't think you intended to do so. The officer that killed Azelle Rodney was prosecuted. A jury found him not guilty. If the evidence isn't there to prove a crime beyond reasonable doubt then the accused is hot guilty. That applies to all. Including Police Officers. My bad. I should have said conviction and not "prosecution". Too eager. Still, it drives home my point that it's not easy holding armed officers to account, however wrong you think they may have acted. I'll be curious to see how this incident at MA plays out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 16 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: My bad. I should have said conviction and not "prosecution". Too eager. Still, it drives home my point that it's not easy holding armed officers to account, however wrong you think they may have acted. I'll be curious to see how this incident at MA plays out. It's no different to prosecuting certain other crimes. Rape is very hard to prove. Excessive force against intruders by homeowners is very hard to prove. Domestic violence is hard to prove. Proving someone who is authorised to kill with a gun had other reasonable alternatives is hard to prove. It's nothing to do with their position as Police Officers. It's simply the nature of the offence. It's the amount of evidence which is based upon someone's interpretation of someone else's intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 1 minute ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: It's no different to prosecuting certain other crimes. Rape is very hard to prove. Excessive force against intruders by homeowners is very hard to prove. Domestic violence is hard to prove. Proving someone who is authorised to kill with a gun had other reasonable alternatives is hard to prove. It's nothing to do with their position as Police Officers. It's simply the nature of the offence. It's the amount of evidence which is based upon someone's interpretation of someone else's intent. I'm not entirely convinced by that. I think law abiding citizens on a jury would find it more difficult convicting a police officer than they would a normal citizen. Although jurors are meant to remain neutral, their deeply held biases can affect their decision. Why else do black lawyers prefer black jury members. I know in this Country deaths in custody have resulted in 13 officers being prosecuted on relatively strong evidence of misconduct or neglect - but none resulted in a guilty verdict. That's my belief. We'll see how the Manchester incident plays out, until then. Be lucky, Sir!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 The police would have known the suspect was potentially violent and had male family/friends with him so they probably should have approached him in larger numbers, or at least with a male cop as backup and not the little female, who was effectively useless in that situation, and possibly a liability. I'm amazed at the willingness to just instantly commit a violent assault against police officers inside an airport terminal as they were waiting to depart. Did they expect to incapacitate the police and just continue to wait to board their flight? Idiots. It's actually a bit shocking watching that. Their seemingly reflexive lust for violence superseded any other practical considerations. And now they're behind bars facing felony charges. As for the cop with the shod foot, I can empathize with him to a degree as a human being with adrenaline glands and self-preservation instincts. But as an officer of the law, he has to be able to restrain himself from resorting to those kinds of actions when the suspect is already subdued. At that point, a kick to the head is no longer considered self-defense or even excessive force. Was there more than one kick to the head? Not that it really matters. One kick represents a total loss of control by the cop, and he's demonstrated to his bosses that he's a liability in the field. Pretty depressing spectacle all around. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 28 Moderator Share Posted July 28 32 minutes ago, maqroll said: I'm amazed at the willingness to just instantly commit a violent assault against police officers inside an airport terminal as they were waiting to depart. Did they expect to incapacitate the police and just continue to wait to board their flight? Idiots. It's actually a bit shocking watching that. Their seemingly reflexive lust for violence superseded any other practical considerations. And now they're behind bars facing felony charges. This didn’t happen in an airport terminal, it happened in a car park at the airport (T2West possibly?) after they’d left he terminal building because they were returning to the UK not on an outbound flight (or possibly meeting someone off the flight - the mother perhaps) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 37 minutes ago, bickster said: This didn’t happen in an airport terminal, it happened in a car park at the airport (T2West possibly?) after they’d left he terminal building because they were returning to the UK not on an outbound flight (or possibly meeting someone off the flight - the mother perhaps) Maybe my story is not completely made up aye? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 6 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: He’s still a threat though so I don’t see that as bad . Ah cool, the police can have a violent free for all as long as they consider someone a threat. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 28 Moderator Share Posted July 28 5 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Maybe my story is not completely made up aye? See my previous post in reply to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 49 minutes ago, bickster said: This didn’t happen in an airport terminal, it happened in a car park at the airport (T2West possibly?) after they’d left he terminal building because they were returning to the UK not on an outbound flight (or possibly meeting someone off the flight - the mother perhaps) Thanks for the correction. In this context it might explain why they were willing to attack like they did because they may have thought they could get away with it. Even so, it was a very stupid thing to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 (edited) 13 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Ah cool, the police can have a violent free for all as long as they consider someone a threat. Got it. You know he's taking abou the other guy yeah? You see that shit on traffic cops. Guy puts his hands up and gets slammed to the floor, for the cuffs to be put on. Edited July 28 by foreveryoung 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 17 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Ah cool, the police can have a violent free for all as long as they consider someone a threat. Got it. His actions moment earlier warranted it imo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 28 Moderator Share Posted July 28 9 minutes ago, maqroll said: Thanks for the correction. In this context it might explain why they were willing to attack like they did because they may have thought they could get away with it. Even so, it was a very stupid thing to do. There are as yet unknown incidents not involving the police that went before this too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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