Demitri_C Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 27 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: The police, as a single entity, are held to a high standard. When one or two individuals fail to meet that standard it reflects badly on that entity. That is true of most things in life. When I say “the police have not met that high standard” I am saying that those individuals need to dealt with accordingly and the relevant authorities need to review to ensure they reduce the chance of that failure happening again. I am now confused by your last paragraph. Earlier you said “Not excusing thia (sic) behaviour at all as it’s wrong and thuggery.” Now you’re NOT saying the officers acted in a very poor manner? Is there a typo that has made me misunderstand. Because I now no longer understand your view on this incident. Yes you have it wrong, let mw make my position clearer.i have never defended their actions. Ive said its wrong and barbaric. My comments refer go the police as whole where im talking about how difficult their roles are and i think its abit harsh to criticise them quoting your word "as a entity". Im speaking generally now. I think we are kind of agreeing on some elements as i agree wholeheartedly with your third paragraph. It will need review and it certainly needs to be looking into how these people have become police officiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 40 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: A great example. Previously the Police would need a warrant to search your home. The warrant is no longer necessary if its a serious offence and necessary to do so. Thanks i actually didnt know that. After checking it says they cannot just invite themselves in. But they can come in if they believe a person has committed or attempted to commit a serious crime. Dont think thats a bad thing if a murders locked himself in someones house they have a right to get in there. If they get it wrong then their is a process to make a complaint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Dem are you a copper ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 2 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: Were the police wearing bodycams? If not, why not? Everyone ends up being protected better if the whole incident is on film from start to finish. I'd like to see the full footage being released in cases like these, as it leaves a lot less empty space for people to project their own prejudices into. Andy Burnham said he has seen the full footage and the situation is not 'clear cut'. That kind of indicates some major shit led to the incident. Not that it excuses the stamp of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 (edited) 8 hours ago, Demitri_C said: But in the 1970s didnt teachers use to beat kids in school back then? And id argue the worlds a much more dangerous and different place now than then. Yes they did. Just like the Police force there were some teachers that abused that power. You still haven't quoted any examples of powers that the Police have lost. Trust me, you are going to struggle to find any. The only ones I can think of are that they can't beat you as a form of punishment and undercover officers can't father children with the people they are investigating. The Police have more powers than ever before. It's just that they need to be accountable. Let me give you an example. The Police have always been able to place you under covert surveillance. In the 1970s they would just go and do it. They can still do it but they have to complete a form called a RIP1 (Regulation Investigatory Powers 1) before they start. This outlines the matter being investigated, purpose of the surveillance and methodology to be used. All officers involved must read that form so that they know their limits. If an officer finds themselves in need of undertaking urgent surveillance they can obtain verbal authority and fill out the form later. If it's even more urgent they can undertake the surveillance and fill out the form retrospectively at the first opportunity. At the end of the operation another form is completed (RIP4) outlining what was done and what was achieved. https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/ripa-forms--2 Quote Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act - Forms Edited July 27 by Mandy Lifeboats Spelling mishsteaks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27 Moderator Share Posted July 27 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 14 hours ago, Keyblade said: Unless you're a footballer, I think you can get more weight and force into a stamp, not least due to gravity but also because the force of the kick would vary wildly based on angle and timing and where you catch the person. With a stamp, the surface area of contact is larger, you can do some serious damage. But I hear your point, a well placed kick can be devastating. When someone's on the floor incapacitated like that anything can cause damage. A stamp is more damaging because the solid object on the other side of the head (I.e. the ground) means all the force is taken by the head. With a kick some of the force can be lost in the recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 It's a bit sketchy, but I heard off my pal last night whos an AR officer (please don't quote me on it as fact, as I know how VT works). There was apparently an argument on the aircraft or in the baggage area prior to this incident with the mother, may have been physical like a barge from a random guy. The mother pointed the guy out to some family members who were collecting them from the carpark. The family members jumped a security barrier and kicked off with this guy, the police turned up, an all hell broke loose, with the perpertrators resisting arrest, possibly causing the broken nose on one of the officers. Apart from trying to seriously injure someone (the head kick). Armed police can, an will use extreme force to stop an incident as quick as possible in an airport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 57 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: It's a bit sketchy, but I heard off my pal last night whos an AR officer (please don't quote me on it as fact, as I know how VT works). There was apparently an argument on the aircraft or in the baggage area prior to this incident with the mother, may have been physical like a barge from a random guy. The mother pointed the guy out to some family members who were collecting them from the carpark. The family members jumped a security barrier and kicked off with this guy, the police turned up, an all hell broke loose, with the perpertrators resisting arrest, possibly causing the broken nose on one of the officers. Apart from trying to seriously injure someone (the head kick). Armed police can, an will use extreme force to stop an incident as quick as possible in an airport. Sketchy, apparently, may have been, possibly. I have no reasons to disbelieve this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 13 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: Just look at the state of this Country's prisons. As Dostoyevsky said, "The degree of civilisation in a society can be judged by entering it's prisons." If that is true, then we are heading down a very dark road. I'm someone whose spent 18yrs of his life in prison, but without that healthy respect for authority, it's not a case of relying on one's inner resources, it's dog eat dog. No parameters, no rules, you're heading down a dark road. That's scary, especially for the young kids of today. It's easy to pontificate from a place of comfort. Your posts make a lot more sense when viewed as written by someone who has experienced years of prison 'justice'. You do seem to have completely missed the question you were actually asked though. Do you think those communities (that most would agree need more of a police presence) would feel safer if safely restrained people were getting their heads stamped on by the authorities? FWIW I also know an awful lot of police and even the 'I miss the days when we could squeeze confessions out of people' types don't seem to have been able to find any justification for this incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 My sister is a serving PCSO and she gave me some valid info that I believe 100%. She said that she finds it near impossible to stop youths on escooters in Leominster. I said that doesnt help me with what happened in Manchester. she said how the **** would I know about that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 24 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Sketchy, apparently, may have been, possibly. I have no reasons to disbelieve this. Who has the bottled to state anything as fact on VT. If wrong, your treated like a copper who has just stamped on someones head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 27 Moderator Share Posted July 27 17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Who has the bottled to state anything as fact on VT. If wrong, your treated like a copper who has just stamped on someones head. People in possession of actual facts? What you’ve posted is gossip but have attempted to dress it up as meaningful and insightful. It is neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 14 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Your posts make a lot more sense when viewed as written by someone who has experienced years of prison 'justice'. You do seem to have completely missed the question you were actually asked though. Do you think those communities (that most would agree need more of a police presence) would feel safer if safely restrained people were getting their heads stamped on by the authorities? FWIW I also know an awful lot of police and even the 'I miss the days when we could squeeze confessions out of people' types don't seem to have been able to find any justification for this incident. Honest, hard working residents who live in crime stricken areas would be quite happy for the police to be a bit more aggressive. Come to my Manor, and I'll show you around. You can ask the residents yourself. I don't know what police you know, but the days when Old Bill could fit you up, they was giving out a bit more than just stamps and kicks. Try having a plastic bag pulled over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Fakkin ell guv, wouldn't want to be up your "manor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 1 minute ago, Davkaus said: Fakkin ell guv, wouldn't want to be up your "manor" I doubt you stood in the Holte - End. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 13 hours ago, Xela said: Not that it excuses the stamp of course That little insurance bit made me chuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 2 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Apart from trying to seriously injure someone (the head kick). Armed police can, an will use extreme force to stop an incident as quick as possible in an airport. That's just not true. Police can use reasonable and necessary force. Extreme force that is unnecessary or unreasonable is a criminal act. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 52 minutes ago, bickster said: People in possession of actual facts? What you’ve posted is gossip but have attempted to dress it up as meaningful and insightful. It is neither. So what! When has a forum been a place for actual facts. I thought it was a place for discussion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 18 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: That's just not true. Police can use reasonable and necessary force. Extreme force that is unnecessary or unreasonable is a criminal act. I agree, although it wasn't really related to this incident, as it didn't really require extreme force. If someone tries to grab there gun, I think extreme force could be justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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