MotoMkali Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 23 minutes ago, useless said: Ramsey hasn't done less than Archer, Ramsey was already better than Archer last season in the Championship at an age when Archer was playing non-league football with Solihull, and Ramsey did way more at academy level as well with both us and England. We might get a little more money for Archer, because teams will pay a premium for goal scorers, but if we add a buy-back-clause that will lower the price, my guess would be around fifteen million with buy-back, and round twenty million without buy-back. That's wrong though. Ramsey was great sure. But Archer had a goal contribution like every 85 minutes or something that's ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 It really isn't wrong, I watched as many Middlesbrough games as I could, and Ramsey was far better than him, frankly it wasn't even close, other than his goals Archer was actually quite quiet, in fact I thought Archer looked much better at Preston in terms of all round game. Ramsey not only had the all round game but also goals and assists to go with it, if it wasn't for his injury MIddlesbrough would probably be in the Premier League now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, useless said: It really isn't wrong, I watched as many Middlesbrough games as I could, and Ramsey was far better than him, frankly it wasn't even close, other than his goals Archer was actually quite quiet, in fact I thought Archer looked much better at Preston in terms of all round game. Ramsey not only had the all round game but also goals and assists to go with it, if it wasn't for his injury MIddlesbrough would probably be in the Premier League now. There were only two strikers better than him in the champ last season, and both of them were in their prime. Yes, Ramsey was the better all round player, but the only reason they'd have been OK without Archer is because one of the other two strikers that was better then him was Akpom, who was also playing for Boro. They didn't have an equivalent replacement for Ramsey's all round creativity. They were both exceptional talents for their own reasons. And both are worth 20m ( or slightly less if we want a buy back) Edited August 9, 2023 by MrBlack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
est1874 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Archer is good but not great, and the window for him to step up and prove he can be great is starting to close. Not saying every striker begins to peak at 21/22, but they have to be able to show they've got a very high upper ceiling at this stage. If he can't do that very shortly I'd have no qualms cashing in. If we put in a buy back clause, then all the better, as it mitigates any chance of him still stepping up and becoming top class. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duke313 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 18 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: So is the Academy really only for FFP purposes? Looks like it. Unless they are Grelish or Ramsey tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 I'd be disappointed if he's sold. How can anyone say he's not good enough? He's barely **** played for the first team. He needs to get to at least January, we have the European group stages, that is the perfect chance to get games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Don't feel Cam has been given a chance here at all 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Archer is probs gunna be a modern version of Dwight Gayle - too good for the championship but not good enough for the Prem. Can see him going to Sheffield Utd or even Leeds or Southampton… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, GingerCollins29 said: Don't feel Cam has been given a chance here at all Why’s that then ? Harshly treated or just not good enough for where we are now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, thabucks said: Why’s that then ? Harshly treated or just not good enough for where we are now ? He simply hasn't been given a chance, he's been too good to not play so he's been loaned out. But this season with Europe I think he should be used for that too see what he can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 6 minutes ago, thabucks said: Why’s that then ? Harshly treated or just not good enough for where we are now ? He's not been given much opportunity here to prove it with the first team. Very few minutes in pre season. I trust Emery' opinion though, so assume if he's made that call he's seen enough in training to make his mind up that he's not going to offer what we need at this stage. Could also just be paper bollocks 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chine Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, CVByrne said: It's for developing players. Those who are deemed not good enough are sold. This , we have to move academy players on and get some money back , we can’t afford and won’t be stockpiling , if the right money becomes available for a player especially a borderline one they will be sold , 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 16 minutes ago, CVByrne said: It's for developing players. Those who are deemed not good enough are sold. If you really push it and pretend Wolves/West Brom/etc simply don’t exist, there are three or four million people in the AVFC Academy catchment area. So at a real push the academy should catch about 5% of the population of Britain. 5% is 1-in-20. So only looking at Britain as the talent pool, you’d expect something like one squad player to be from our catchment area. Thats before including Europe (Pau, Kamara), South America (Luiz, Emi) and so on. So it would be very unusual if our academy had produced more than a handful of our first team squad. If we want to compete for the top 4, we need a top 4 squad. We can’t have a squad who are bottom-half PL standard, even if that includes some very very good players. We should get used to selling 90-95% of our academy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, duke313 said: Looks like it. Unless they are Grelish or Ramsey tier. £150 million potentially earned in 3 summers for academy graduates. Mad really. That has saved us from having to cut our cloth i guess . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: So is the Academy really only for FFP purposes? It's just very hard for any of them to break into the first team with the level we are at. We have one of the best youth set ups in the country but how many have actually come through and had a first team impact in the last 20 years? Barry, Cahill, Albrighton, Gabby, Grealish, JJ? A few others had a couple of seasons and then generally dropped down the levels. We will get a star player once every 5-6 years maybe, Chelsea have just stockpiled kids for cheap for years and then sold them on for a profit. Although I'd prefer to keep Ramsey and Archer their sales are going to be worth 30-40m combined, that could for example pay for 80% of Ferran Torres who would have a significant impact on our team. It does seem a bit silly to me to spend 15m on Duran and then to sell Archer for maybe a similar price. I don't think that makes sense at all given Archer looks a better prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Just now, Mr_Dogg said: He simply hasn't been given a chance, he's been too good to not play so he's been loaned out. But this season with Europe I think he should be used for that too see what he can do. You’re right he is too good to not be playing but why hasn’t he been given the chance - cause he isn't good enough to where we want to be IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, AndyM3000 said: It's just very hard for any of them to break into the first team with the level we are at. We have one of the best youth set ups in the country but how many have actually come through and had a first team impact in the last 20 years? Barry, Cahill, Albrighton, Gabby, Grealish, JJ? A few others had a couple of seasons and then generally dropped down the levels. We will get a star player once every 5-6 years maybe, Chelsea have just stockpiled kids for cheap for years and then sold them on for a profit. Although I'd prefer to keep Ramsey and Archer their sales are going to be worth 30-40m combined, that could for example pay for 80% of Ferran Torres who would have a significant impact on our team. It does seem a bit silly to me to spend 15m on Duran and then to sell Archer for maybe a similar price. I don't think that makes sense at all given Archer looks a better prospect. Barry wasn't even our academy really. The numbers are low because our academy was terribly run until fairly recently. But it is right that we shouldn't really expect more than 1 academy player to be in the first 11 at a time except in freak years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 If we want to get back to the top we have to be ruthless and financially savvy. Look at the Lerner years. Too much sentiment. Too many long contracts and Too much wasted money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: If aaron ramsey is going fir 14m ans he has donw a lot less than archer then why would we contemplate anything less. Maybe 16-17m with add ons but thats lowest id go The difference is Ramsey is going to a Premier league team who can afford to pay 15m for a youth prospect. Championship sides can't even afford 20m for experienced players in their prime, let alone some kid with potential. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishVilla10 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 42 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: It iant but its 90% of being a striker Look at kane he can have absolute shit games where he rarely touches the ball yet gets one opportunity and wins spurs games himself. I honestly don’t think that’s comparable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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