Cameron Archer

[duke313]

25 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Interested to see how much he works with youth. He's only really given JJ a chance so far. Most of them are on loan but it's interesting to me we've had 2 GKs on the bench since January and still loaned out AJ and Archer again and KKH hasn't popped up on a bench appearance 

At Villareal, there's quite a lot of late 20's and early 30's players. Which made me a bit concerned from a youth development position, Villareal have a good youth setup but still have an average age of 28.4, and that's reduced by their Attacking players averaging 25 (Def 29, Mid 29.8)..

Though, tbf Emery did promote some youth in his 2 years there.

•  Yeremy Pino (who had turned down Barca to join Villareal C before Unai joined) moved into the 1st team in his first pre-season
• Nicolas Jackson was promoted to 1st team in August, but made limited chances before Unai joined us.
• Alex Baena, promoted to 1st team at same time as Jackson, though has made more of a mark on the squad, though again, limited under Emery as he left.

Probably can't give Unai credit for Chukweze as he'd been part of the first team for 2 years before hand, but (despite differences in position) probably the closest to JJ as similar stories, 2 years amongst the first team but hopefully we'll see him really develop under Unai over next few years

Don't forget he gave debuts to Saka, Martinelli and Smith-Rowe.  If our youth are good enough, they'll get a chance. 

I remember Emery saying something recently about having youth players on the bench, he said he doesn't want to give them false hope by having them there if they don't merit it, or something along those lines.

[CVByrne]

38 minutes ago, HalfTimePost said:

Interested to see how much he works with youth. He's only really given JJ a chance so far. Most of them are on loan but it's interesting to me we've had 2 GKs on the bench since January and still loaned out AJ and Archer again and KKH hasn't popped up on a bench appearance 

At Villareal, there's quite a lot of late 20's and early 30's players. Which made me a bit concerned from a youth development position, Villareal have a good youth setup but still have an average age of 28.4, and that's reduced by their Attacking players averaging 25 (Def 29, Mid 29.8)..

Though, tbf Emery did promote some youth in his 2 years there.

•  Yeremy Pino (who had turned down Barca to join Villareal C before Unai joined) moved into the 1st team in his first pre-season
• Nicolas Jackson was promoted to 1st team in August, but made limited chances before Unai joined us.
• Alex Baena, promoted to 1st team at same time as Jackson, though has made more of a mark on the squad, though again, limited under Emery as he left.

Probably can't give Unai credit for Chukweze as he'd been part of the first team for 2 years before hand, but (despite differences in position) probably the closest to JJ as similar stories, 2 years amongst the first team but hopefully we'll see him really develop under Unai over next few years

Archer will get a chance to impress. If he doesn't then he goes on loan to improve more.

Comparison between Villarreal and Villa not worth making as we have significantly more financial resources available.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, Johnnyp said:

I don’t think with his momentum and the trajectory of where his career is at right now, he’ll want to get 10-15 mins at Villa next season, even if it’s every match. Watkins is Emery’s man at the minute. Archer would start easily for a handful of premier league clubs next season. We don’t necessarily have to have Boro going up to loan him there. Many clubs would take him. 

He’s still a young player and unproven in the Premier League. I think if we’re interested in him for our first team squad then, like everyone else he’ll have to earn his place. The fact that if the coaches want him here then they see him as a useful asset. 

None of us can predict injuries or lack of form. If we are involved in Europe and hopefully go further in the domestic cups, then I think, if he’s good enough, he’ll have plenty of opportunities here.

The club also has lots of forward momentum. He’s doing well but a few months in the Championship doesn’t make him the finished article. To sell him now would be madness. Unless he goes the full Chuck, I’d like to think that he’ll be sensible and continue his development here at a club he knows we’ll and who know him too. 

[HalfTimePost]

7 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Archer will get a chance to impress. If he doesn't then he goes on loan to improve more.

Comparison between Villarreal and Villa not worth making as we have significantly more financial resources available.

Which is kind of why you'd assume there would be more chances for youth at Villareal

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Alan Nixon claims Boro want him on a permanent, and we value him at more than 20 mill.

If we do sell him, he best have a buyback and/or large sell on clause!

[turvontour]

6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Alan Nixon claims Boro want him on a permanent, and we value him at more than 20 mill.

If we do sell him, he best have a buyback and/or large sell on clause!

It's odd if we do sell at that sort of value as we dont know what his ceiling is yet. 

[lexicon]

10 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Alan Nixon claims Boro want him on a permanent, and we value him at more than 20 mill.

If we do sell him, he best have a buyback and/or large sell on clause!

I think 20mil is a good fee for him, especially as it's pure profit from an FFP perspective. 

I really don't know about Archer - much like Morgan Sanson, it seems that he can perform at a high level below premier league standard but a few managers haven't been convinced yet. He's still young and learning, though, so we should definitely get some clauses in that contract. 

[thejoker]

If we get £20m for an academy product it will give us massive wiggle room with FFP. I can see this happening if Boro get promoted. 

[VILLAMARV]

Emery is not stupid. He must be able to see there's more than something about him. I'll be amazed if he isn't integrated into the first team. What more can a youth prospect do than be consistantly good in the championship and scoring goals at U21 International level?

 

[lexicon]

19 minutes ago, thejoker said:

If we get £20m for an academy product it will give us massive wiggle room with FFP. I can see this happening if Boro get promoted. 

Same. If we can get the bones of 30m for him and Davis, that'll be great for our summer budget. 

[MWARLEY2]

Theres more time for him i think.  A lateish developer.  To play 16 games worth of minutes and score 10 and assist 6 shows he is still progressing.   I am pretty sure that i can guess what the conversation was with Emery and Archer. You go and show everyone how your game is developing.  Not just running in behind. Awareness , build up play, back to goal , assists. ... we have done the data and Boro are perfect for you. Not Preston. 

 

[Kingman]

1 hour ago, thejoker said:

If we get £20m for an academy product it will give us massive wiggle room with FFP. I can see this happening if Boro get promoted. 

If they get promoted its £40m 

[TRO]

I like Cam, I really do, but I am not sure, if he is good enough for top 8, aspirations of the Premier League.....He does not dominate his position, in the same way Jack did......nevertheless a good striker.

Defenders in the Prem are more more switched on, than the championship.....and while Cam is clinical in his finishing, I am unsure of his overall threat for 90 odd minutes....I think he can look a bit ordinary for spells of a game.

Chances don't always come as regular with quality defenders, so patience and persistence is key....In that time, you have to be alive and pose a nuisance to defenders, never letting them settle.

What seperates the good strikers from the Elite strikers, is the Elite ones are always a threat, even when they are not scoring.....They look dangerous, even when they are not.

Vardy in his Pomp, is a good example, of a persistent threat, always weaving back and forth looking for openings, and making intelligent runs, even when not scoring.....always, always unsettling defenders, with his effervescence.

Some good strikers, get the numbers, but have spells of inactivity in a game, they rely on moments of threat, not a constant threat.....They are more easily negated, whereas Elite ones, you can never switch off.

His plus points are 10 goals in 20 games, that is impressive, and his incremental improvement year on year. I want to see him moving forward, be more industrious, and pose more of a constant threat....thet requires intelligent runs and postioning and ball control

I hope Cam becomes Elite with us......but I fear, he will be sold.

Edited May 5, 2023 by TRO

[gwi1890]

On 25/04/2023 at 13:30, duke313 said:

Don't forget he gave debuts to Saka, Martinelli and Smith-Rowe.  If our youth are good enough, they'll get a chance. 

I remember Emery saying something recently about having youth players on the bench, he said he doesn't want to give them false hope by having them there if they don't merit it, or something along those lines.

Also Developed Juan Mata, David Silva, Alvaro Negredo, Presnel Kimpembe and many more.

Edited May 5, 2023 by gwi1890

[MSvillain]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I like Cam, I really do, but I am not sure, if he is good enough for top 8, aspirations of the Premier League.....He does not dominate his position, in the same way Jack did......nevertheless a good striker.

Defenders in the Prem are more more switched on, than the championship.....and while Cam is clinical in his finishing, I am unsure of his overall threat for 90 odd minutes....I think he can look a bit ordinary for spells of a game.

Chances don't always come as regular with quality defenders, so patience and persistence is key....In that time, you have to be alive and pose a nuisance to defenders, never letting them settle.

What seperates the good strikers from the Elite strikers, is the Elite ones are always a threat, even when they are not scoring.....They look dangerous, even when they are not.

Vardy in his Pomp, is a good example, of a persistent threat, always weaving back and forth looking for openings, and making intelligent runs, even when not scoring.....always, always unsettling defenders, with his effervescence.

Some good strikers, get the numbers, but have spells of inactivity in a game, they rely on moments of threat, not a constant threat.....They are more easily negated, whereas Elite ones, you can never switch off.

His plus points are 10 goals in 20 games, that is impressive, and his incremental improvement year on year. I want to see him moving forward, be more industrious, and pose more of a constant threat....thet requires intelligent runs and postioning and ball control

I hope Cam becomes Elite with us......but I fear, he will be sold.

At Cams age Vardy was probably playing sunday league

[SecretVillaScout]

If Viktor Gyokeres is worth £25 Million than Archer is worth at least £30 Million

[AntrimBlack]

On 30/04/2023 at 12:15, thejoker said:

If we get £20m for an academy product it will give us massive wiggle room with FFP. I can see this happening if Boro get promoted. 

This could be another Cahill. At the moment he is the very best of our academy players.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, MSvillain said:

At Cams age Vardy was probably playing sunday league

Yeah....He was a late starter, as was David Platt, and that happens.

If the club feel, he can raise to that level, they will keep him....if they think he can't, he will probably be sold....It seems Chuk was a prudent move, so far.

I am not offering the right answer, because, I simply don't know......but what I am saying, is, if we want to secure top 6 year on year.....we may have to revisit our views on what players are good enough, and what players are not.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, MSvillain said:

At Cams age Vardy was probably playing sunday league

He was playing for "Stocksbridge Park Steels" at 21,  in the "Northern Premier League"  which was rated about 7 /8 in the EFL at the time....He then went on to Halifax  Town, scoring 28 goals in 41 appearances, he has always been prolific at any level...despite being a late bloomer, or was it the scouts just noticed him late?

This is the Cameron Archer thread so I don't want to hijack it, with Jamie Vardy....I was merely making a comparison of " constant threat" which is my observation, thats required for forwards for us moving forward.

I hope Cameron stays with us, and he progresses to the player, that will fit snuggly in to a team that has aspirations for big things....we can only wait and see.

 

Edited May 5, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

On 25/04/2023 at 13:02, HalfTimePost said:

Interested to see how much he works with youth. He's only really given JJ a chance so far. Most of them are on loan but it's interesting to me we've had 2 GKs on the bench since January and still loaned out AJ and Archer again and KKH hasn't popped up on a bench appearance 

At Villareal, there's quite a lot of late 20's and early 30's players. Which made me a bit concerned from a youth development position, Villareal have a good youth setup but still have an average age of 28.4, and that's reduced by their Attacking players averaging 25 (Def 29, Mid 29.8)..

Though, tbf Emery did promote some youth in his 2 years there.

•  Yeremy Pino (who had turned down Barca to join Villareal C before Unai joined) moved into the 1st team in his first pre-season
• Nicolas Jackson was promoted to 1st team in August, but made limited chances before Unai joined us.
• Alex Baena, promoted to 1st team at same time as Jackson, though has made more of a mark on the squad, though again, limited under Emery as he left.

Probably can't give Unai credit for Chukweze as he'd been part of the first team for 2 years before hand, but (despite differences in position) probably the closest to JJ as similar stories, 2 years amongst the first team but hopefully we'll see him really develop under Unai over next few years

This is a question, as opposed to an answer?

Is the Premier League more arduous than La Liga? which could be suggested its easier to introduce young players to the less rigourous campaign?

His first task was to secure Aston Villa in to a safe zone in the Premier League.....that was his focus.

moving forward, his priorities may shift slightly and take on a more development, tone....its a case of first things first.

I would imagine he has plans for months down the line, that have not been mentioned yet, but its a process for him.

Edited May 5, 2023 by TRO