Douglas Luiz

[OLDVILLAIN]

My Gawd...My Eyes ^^^ Info overload

[allani]

40 minutes ago, picicata said:

Well you've argued your points which is fair enough. Not sure many would agree with you though

For what it's worth I'd like Gallagher as well as Luiz

I did a FBref comparison with Gallagher when I was there and their stats seemed to intertwine quite well.  Gallagher's defensive stats are much higher than both Luiz and McGinn but I still think we'd need a Kamara type player in there too.  However, Kamara-Luiz-McGinn-Gallagher on paper would look like a pretty impressive midfield with strength in winning the ball back, controlling possession and then attacking the opposition.  However, take Kamara out of the equation and we'd be pretty unbalanced again.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Doug is the player in the game that seems most difficult to find - he'd fit incredibly well into Arsenal's midfield - you want the attacking one, the defensive one and the one who can link everything together and set tempos, that's Doug. Rice/Odegaard/Luiz would be the best midfield in the league by a mile - it's interesting as well that it's the same problem that England have; Bellingham and Rice are desperate for a Luiz.

He's as rare as hens teeth and there are teams like City that change shape to try to get over not being able to find one, there are veterans being given a higher status than they might expect because they have a little of it, the likes of Kovacic and Jorginho, both four or five years older and nowhere near Luiz - but getting games at top sides.

There are very, very few players around who can do what he does - and those there are have been going for nine figures in this league - of those, Rice is better than him, but he's better than both of Chelsea's.

A valuation of £40m is laughable for a player that Europes best midfields are crying out for - based on the market, he's a nine figure footballer.

 

What worries me is if we cant get him to agree to a new contract this summer then thats the sort of fee we would get for him next summer with 12 months left on his contract.

If he doesnt agree to a new contract this summer then we may be forced to take a 80m offer for him to help with FFP

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

We don't have the aura of Gerrard now mind you.

Is that what aura smells like? I’ll give a bottle of that a miss, if you don’t mind. Essence of Scouse plonker, is so last year now.

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

That’s all true but our coaching staff and recruitment team his much better now than then.  As are many other aspects that have improved dramatically since the appointment of Unai, who has been a key driver of the club both on and off the pitch and who still enjoys the backing of the owners who appointed him and support him massively. It’s almost as if Unai has turned the lights on for us to enable us to see where we should be going and how to get there. As long as he remains everything and anything positive is possible. Would you bet against us?? UTV!!!!!!!!!!

All of that is true too but isn’t relevant to the point I was responding to.

[duke313]

2 hours ago, allani said:

OK I tried really hard not to respond.  However, the bit in bold sums up why your opinion is flawed.  You see Luiz isn't a DM.  That isn't his position.  He's only playing that role because Kamara is out injured.  I'm sure that we could find a better DM for £40m.

I'm not getting into whether Luiz or McGinn are "better" because they are different types of players and impact games in different ways.  However, the FBREF comparison is interesting nonetheless.  I think they show quite clearly why Luiz is so important to us: he played 6 minutes less than McGinn in the PL last season but made over 800 more passes, progressed the ball 2000 meters further (passing), touched the ball over 800 times more (and more times in every part of the pitch except the opposition penalty area), he wins a higher percentage of tackles and has won almost three times as many aerial duels.  I'm not cherry-picking stats here.

Interestingly one stat that does stand out is that our PPM record with McGinn in the team was 1.83 and for Luiz is lower at 1.69.  However, this appears to be primarily down to McGinn missing the Man City away match through suspension.

https://fbref.com/en/stathead/player_comparison.cgi?show_form=1&request=1&sum=0&comp_type=by_type&dom_lg=1&player_id1=6f7d826d&p1yrfrom=2023-2024&player_id2=90f91999&p2yrfrom=2023-2024

Standard Stats

					Playing Time				Performance								Expected				Progression			Per 90 Minutes
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	MP	Starts	Min	90s	Gls	Ast	G+A	G-PK	PK	PKatt	CrdY	CrdR	xG	npxG	xAG	npxG+xAG	PrgC	PrgP	PrgR	Gls	Ast	G+A	G-PK	G+A-PK	xG	xAG	xG+xAG	npxG	npxG+xAG
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	35	35	2,993	33.3	9	5	14	5	4	4	12	0	6.9	3.8	5.4	9.2	60	168	50	0.27	0.15	0.42	0.15	0.30	0.21	0.16	0.37	0.11	0.28
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	35	35	2,999	33.3	6	4	10	6	0	0	9	1	5.0	5.0	4.6	9.6	59	189	84	0.18	0.12	0.30	0.18	0.30	0.15	0.14	0.29	0.15	0.29

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Shooting

						Standard												Expected
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Gls	Sh	SoT	SoT%	Sh/90	SoT/90	G/Sh	G/SoT	Dist	FK	PK	PKatt	xG	npxG	npxG/Sh	G-xG	np:G-xG
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	9	44	13	29.5	1.32	0.39	0.11	0.38	23.3	5	4	4	6.9	3.8	0.09	+2.1	+1.2
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	6	40	14	35.0	1.20	0.42	0.15	0.43	19.5	3	0	0	5.0	5.0	0.12	+1.0	+1.0

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Passing

						Total					Short			Medium			Long					Expected
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	TotDist	PrgDist	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Ast	xAG	xA	A-xAG	KP	1/3	PPA	CrsPA	PrgP
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	1800	2101	85.7	31199	7807	812	871	93.2	775	870	89.1	167	276	60.5	5	5.4	5.3	-0.4	53	137	39	8	168
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	972	1223	79.5	17953	5844	434	489	88.8	396	462	85.7	130	217	59.9	4	4.6	4.9	-0.6	44	124	52	14	189

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Pass Types

							Pass Types								Corner Kicks			Outcomes
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Att	Live	Dead	FK	TB	Sw	Crs	TI	CK	In	Out	Str	Cmp	Off	Blocks
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	2101	1857	237	129	11	13	115	6	100	61	7	2	1800	7	21
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	1223	1137	82	31	15	8	74	3	37	28	0	0	972	4	25

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Goal and Shot Creation

						SCA		SCA Types						GCA		GCA Types
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	SCA	SCA90	PassLive	PassDead	TO	Sh	Fld	Def	GCA	GCA90	PassLive	PassDead	TO	Sh	Fld	Def
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	117	3.52	61	34	6	10	5	1	10	0.30	5	4	0	0	1	0
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	106	3.18	88	9	6	2	1	0	14	0.42	11	1	2	0	0	0

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Defensive Actions

						Tackles					Challenges				Blocks
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Tkl	TklW	Def 3rd	Mid 3rd	Att 3rd	Tkl	Att	Tkl%	Lost	Blocks	Sh	Pass	Int	Tkl+Int	Clr	Err
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	58	38	21	27	10	25	53	47.2	28	32	8	24	23	81	18	2
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	59	35	18	34	7	32	77	41.6	45	33	4	29	21	80	21	0

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Possession

						Touches							Take-Ons					Carries								Receiving
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	Touches	Def Pen	Def 3rd	Mid 3rd	Att 3rd	Att Pen	Live	Att	Succ	Succ%	Tkld	Tkld%	Carries	TotDist	PrgDist	PrgC	1/3	CPA	Mis	Dis	Rec	PrgR
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	2351	81	519	1256	598	38	2347	47	24	51.1	16	34.0	1394	7522	3562	60	48	4	33	31	1638	50
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	1546	44	257	810	499	58	1546	96	54	56.3	27	28.1	994	5181	2385	59	45	10	55	61	1096	84

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Playing Time

					Playing Time					Starts			Subs			Team Success						Team Success (xG)
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	MP	Min	Mn/MP	Min%	90s	Starts	Mn/Start	Compl	Subs	Mn/Sub	unSub	PPM	onG	onGA	+/-	+/-90	On-Off	onxG	onxGA	xG+/-	xG+/-90	On-Off
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	35	2,993	86	87.5	33.3	35	86	26	0		0	1.69	65	57	+8	+0.24	-1.23	56.4	52.7	+3.7	+0.11	+0.18
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	35	2,999	86	87.7	33.3	35	86	24	0		0	1.83	68	52	+16	+0.48	+0.69	56.6	48.6	+8.0	+0.24	+1.22

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

Miscellaneous Stats

						Performance													Aerial Duels
Player	Span	Nation	Pos	Squad	90s	CrdY	CrdR	2CrdY	Fls	Fld	Off	Crs	Int	TklW	PKwon	PKcon	OG	Recov	Won	Lost	Won%
Douglas Luiz	2023-24	br BRA	MF	Aston Villa	33.3	12	0	0	51	41	0	115	23	38	0	0	0	184	25	18	58.1
John McGinn	2023-24	sct SCO	MF,FW	Aston Villa	33.3	9	1	0	39	69	2	74	21	35	0	0	0	161	9	19	32.1

Totals may not be complete for all senior-level play, see coverage note.
An underline indicates the data for the statistic is incomplete

 

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Quote

The #AstonVilla advances on #McKennie thinking of being able to satisfy the player's requests: and, therefore, of gaining his satisfaction with the destination. The fit with #DouglasLuiz is possible (we are talking about it) but not necessarily tied: #Juventus evaluates the opportunity.

 

[CarryOnVilla]

Losing Doug and replacing him with Mckennie!!!

 

is this some kind of nightmare dimension 

[_AA_786]

14 hours ago, CarryOnVilla said:

Losing Doug and replacing him with Mckennie!!!

 

is this some kind of nightmare dimension 

If we lose Luiz and replace with McKennie that would be an epic downgrade almost on a par with the upgrade from Gerrard to Unai. Yes McKennie played a lot at Juve this last year but he's generally just adds energy and arguably Fagioli & Miretti have outperformed him when they've played.

[chips'ngravy]

Don't get the 'Luiz is expendable' narrative that is starting to emerge amongst some of the Villa fan base. Stats aside, when I watch him in a Villa shirt he is the hub of our midfield play. Great first touch, always looks to have the ball under control, rarely loses it, drives us forward where he can and has even started to bang a few goals in. Perhaps it's times like this we should reflect on some of the total and utter shite we've had in central midfield or the talented but largely anonymous.

Luiz is a cracking player, and if he leaves will be sorely missed and not easily replaced.

[MrBlack]

10 minutes ago, chips'ngravy said:

Don't get the 'Luiz is expendable' narrative that is starting to emerge amongst some of the Villa fan base. Stats aside, when I watch him in a Villa shirt he is the hub of our midfield play. Great first touch, always looks to have the ball under control, rarely loses it, drives us forward where he can and has even started to bang a few goals in. Perhaps it's times like this we should reflect on some of the total and utter shite we've had in central midfield or the talented but largely anonymous.

Luiz is a cracking player, and if he leaves will be sorely missed and not easily replaced.

I would say not expendable. But if it were a choice between the biggest players in our team then I'd rather sell him over Watkins or Martinez. Martinez is kind of unique in world football and genuinely irreplaceable. Watkins is the most complete forward one ever seen at Villa, and I don't see us being able to sign a striker remotely close to his ability.

If Kamara returned then Youri can play Luiz's role and there isn't a massive drop down there. Barkley, if signed, seems to have very comparable (arguably more favoruable) stats in a Luton team that would have seen even more pressing than Luiz did in some games.

I dont want him to go. I want him to be our first choice alongside whoever we get in to replace the injured Kamara for the start of next season. But he's definitely the one key player we do have an alternative for in the team already, and an alternative almost lined up. 

[striker]

23 hours ago, lexicon said:

I am very, very happy that you are not involved in any of our transfer decisions. 

This is just absolute drivel, I'm sorry. 

No worries at all. It is just my opinion of the player.

[CroVillan]

33 minutes ago, chips'ngravy said:

Don't get the 'Luiz is expendable' narrative that is starting to emerge amongst some of the Villa fan base. Stats aside, when I watch him in a Villa shirt he is the hub of our midfield play. Great first touch, always looks to have the ball under control, rarely loses it, drives us forward where he can and has even started to bang a few goals in. Perhaps it's times like this we should reflect on some of the total and utter shite we've had in central midfield or the talented but largely anonymous.

Luiz is a cracking player, and if he leaves will be sorely missed and not easily replaced.

Each to their own Chips but I disagree. Yes the impact of losing Boubs has had an impact on his play but honestly and I’ll get lambasted for this but I’ve never seen the hype surrounding him. 
Personally think he’s too passive on the ball sometimes, gets flustered in pressure situations regularly and lacks that pace to drive through the centre and split sides open. 
 

I love Dougie and he’s been a great servant and one of our better players but world class he is not in my eyes. People will say then why are Arse, Pool and United going for him….maybe he’ll suit their style better and be able to extract something that will raise his bar but who knows.

 

80-100m on Dougie is a great deal for us and I’d rather be selling him than Jacob or Ollie. 
time will tell and I’d love to keep him but if a an offer came in with the above amount I’d be pulling the trigger. 

Edited June 3 by CroVillan
Spelling

[GingerCollins29]

When Doug plays in his correct position, with a DM next to him, he is in the top 5 midfielders in the league. 

DO NOT SELL (assuming Monchi is reading this) 

[Keener window-cleaner]

I don't understand the idea of entertaining bids for Luiz at all, at any price. He is imo one of the best, if not the best, midfielder we have had since I started following Villa around 1993.

[PaulMcGrath_5]

4 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I don't understand the idea of entertaining bids for Luiz at all, at any price. He is imo one of the best, if not the best, midfielder we have had since I started following Villa around 1993.

P

S

R

[alexvilla4]

I really don't want to sell Dougie. Very talented player who has been with us now a fairly long time, and I would love to see him in the Champs League

However, in the current circumstances unfortunately if it was me I would take £80m for him and reinvest it elsewhere. I think McGinn/Tielemans/Barkley next to a fit Kamara could do a good job between them and we could use the rest to purchase top full backs, attacking mid/DM rotation etc

 

[Tomaszk]

10 minutes ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

I don't understand the idea of entertaining bids for Luiz at all, at any price. He is imo one of the best, if not the best, midfielder we have had since I started following Villa around 1993.

What don't you understand about the need to raise money to strengthen the whole squad?

[Vive_La_Villa]

5 minutes ago, alexvilla4 said:

I really don't want to sell Dougie. Very talented player who has been with us now a fairly long time, and I would love to see him in the Champs League

However, in the current circumstances unfortunately if it was me I would take £80m for him and reinvest it elsewhere. I think McGinn/Tielemans/Barkley next to a fit Kamara could do a good job between them and we could use the rest to purchase top full backs, attacking mid/DM rotation etc

 

I love Dougie. But nobody is offering 80m for him in the current climate.

[Rightdm00]

Just now, Tomaszk said:

What don't you understand about the need to raise money to strengthen the whole squad?

How does one strengthen the squad by selling one of its best players. It took us almost 2 seasons to recover from selling Jack.  Any midfielder bought to replace luiz would have to hit the ground running or our champions league campaign is over before it ever starts.  Selling luiz, especially with kamara unavailable for the first half of the season is plain craziness. Luiz was top 3 in the minutes played this campaign. Selling him would leave a massive hole. We would be weaker for it, especially in the short term.