Douglas Luiz

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, sne said:

Would be a fundamental change considering building from the back and keeping possession to lure teams out of position was the main part of how we played. Kamara and Luiz were key to this along with Pau and Emi. Can't see us trying to play that way with Kamara and Luiz missing.

Interesting times to see who we bring in, how quick the new system slots into place and how quick the new players adapt. 

Teams worked us out in latter half of last season. So an approach which was counter punching having teams come onto us and then playing a direct attack centrally is going to work less than it did. So teams who will sit off in a mid block we need different approach now. While we ourselves need to add in a high pressing game and for that we need athletic players capable of doing that. We will have more tools in the box for Emery to set up different midfield combinations for the opponent. It'll be interesting to see who we have brought in come end of August.

[allani]

14 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

The fact that we beat Arsenal without Dougie tells me the likes of Youri and others we bring in will step up. Onwards and upwards. 

That was 1 win.  We won 26 matches when Luiz was playing - including Arsenal and Man City.

I am sure that Emery and Monchi will work hard over the summer to minimise any impact of Luiz leaving - but he's still a big departure. 

He's not played as well when he's been played out of position and at the end of a very long season - but he's far from the only person that could be levelled at.  McGinn has been less effective playing on the left or as a deeper central midfielder too (the latter far more so than Luiz).  Watkins hasn't been asked to play left winger or a right winger for an extended period of time but was less effective when Dean tried him alongside Ings.  Being slightly facetious - Emi probably wouldn't be good at playing left back rather than in goal.

[Demitri_C]

Im sore worried about who is taking set pieces as barring luiz most of our team are pretty useless at taking them. 

[sne]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Teams worked us out in latter half of last season. So an approach which was counter punching having teams come onto us and then playing a direct attack centrally is going to work less than it did. So teams who will sit off in a mid block we need different approach now. While we ourselves need to add in a high pressing game and for that we need athletic players capable of doing that. We will have more tools in the box for Emery to set up different midfield combinations for the opponent. It'll be interesting to see who we have brought in come end of August.

With Kamara injured and Luiz ending up having played 4300 minutes at the end of the season. But yeah, will be interesting what the plan is for our midfield next season.

Edited June 16 by sne

[gwi1890]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im sore worried about who is taking set pieces as barring luiz most of our team are pretty useless at taking them. 

Tielemans 

[Xela]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im sore worried about who is taking set pieces

Best put some talcum powder on that. 

Edited June 16 by Xela

[allani]

4 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Teams worked us out in latter half of last season. So an approach which was counter punching having teams come onto us and then playing a direct attack centrally is going to work less than it did. So teams who will sit off in a mid block we need different approach now. While we ourselves need to add in a high pressing game and for that we need athletic players capable of doing that. We will have more tools in the box for Emery to set up different midfield combinations for the opponent. It'll be interesting to see who we have brought in come end of August.

I kind of agree and disagree.  We definitely need to have more flexibility to counter different teams / different match situations.  I think this applies in defence, midfield and attack.  However, I'm not so sure that teams "worked us out" as much as squad depth, injuries and general fatigue caught up with us.  I think we had the shortest average turnaround of any team in Europe (or certainly very close) with a small squad and several key injuries (often impacting the same position at the same time).  The answer is still broadly the same - more additions and different combinations so that Emery has more flexibility / options.  I still think our "Plan A" will be effective in the vast majority of matches where we're as "fresh" as the opposition.  I think several of our defeats / worst performances came when we'd played 72 hours before and our opponents had had almost double that.  Hopefully that is a problem we will face every season and we'll get better at dealing with it.

[Jas10]

13 minutes ago, allani said:

That was 1 win.  We won 26 matches when Luiz was playing - including Arsenal and Man City.

I am sure that Emery and Monchi will work hard over the summer to minimise any impact of Luiz leaving - but he's still a big departure. 

He's not played as well when he's been played out of position and at the end of a very long season - but he's far from the only person that could be levelled at.  McGinn has been less effective playing on the left or as a deeper central midfielder too (the latter far more so than Luiz).  Watkins hasn't been asked to play left winger or a right winger for an extended period of time but was less effective when Dean tried him alongside Ings.  Being slightly facetious - Emi probably wouldn't be good at playing left back rather than in goal.

Yeah… it almost sounds kind of delusional to expect Youri to perform as well as and just to play as regularly and constantly as Dougie has for us… a couple of games or good performances doesn’t really change or back that up.

It’s a lot of pressure to put on a player who tends to pick up knocks and strains and often shows sign of exhaustion in games… not sure he can handle that kind of workload. He’s liable to costly errors too but hopefully we’ve seen the worst of that. He is quality but he is not as reliable as some have suddenly suggested or turned their opinions around on… 

Dougie has a much bigger and more positive body of work at the club than Tielemans has…  no other midfield we have does really. I’ve already posted comments from Unai and clear stats above in an earlier post.

Youri can help (on his day, he oozes class) but he can’t do it alone.

Afaic, there is a real void with Dougie departing… but I do back Unai to overcome it. It just feels bad, for now…

Unless he stays n signs a new deal!

Edited June 16 by Jas10

[WallisFrizz]

12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im sore worried about who is taking set pieces as barring luiz most of our team are pretty useless at taking them. 

Tielemans, McGinn, Digne (if he’s still here). Maybe new players coming in. It’s the defending set pieces that bothers me more regardless of Dougie staying or going.

[Xela]

As others have said, i was comforted about how well we played in the 2 games without him in the games towards the end of the season. The only games we won!

Tielemens and McGinn (I think) were great there. 

Luiz will be a miss but he is replaceable. God speed Douglas. 

[allani]

10 minutes ago, sne said:

With Kamara injured and Luiz ending up having played 4300 minutes at the end of the season. But yeah, will be interesting what the plan is for our midfield next season.

Not just our midfield (although as this is the Luiz thread it's obviously the most relevant).  But we need a proper GK contingency, some added defensive nous and options up top when teams sit deep and Ollie / Bailey /  Diaby are less able to attack the space behind the opposition.

[Xela]

Also, I try not to get too invested in individual players now... the team is the most important thing. Emery knows what he's doing and how he needs to juggle things. 

[The_Steve]

19 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Dougie was out the team very briefly and it's likely they galvanised in his absence. It's possible for players to raise their game in a one-off or even a few matches, but it doesn't mean that it's sustainable and we don't have the sample size of him being out the team for any length to really analyse. 

Emery will have a plan to replace what he brings but losing Douglas will still hurt the team and it'll take time to adjusting to life without him, such is his importance.

Nobody is saying he’s not been important but he’s not irreplaceable. He’s also had some stinker performances. The point is, we have a very capable squad that will step up. The idea that Dougie’s absence somehow galvinised the team, not Unai’s tactical shifts just isn’t true. Nor did we have the luxury of options to rotate the quality of player with Dougie so arguably became too reliant on him so when he played poorly it had a bigger influence on our performances overall. 

[Jas10]

17 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Im sore worried about who is taking set pieces as barring luiz most of our team are pretty useless at taking them. 

Worrying shouldn’t make you sore… maybe book an appointment mate.

[Jas10]

Tielemans is not the answer to every problem posed by Luiz’s departure!

[Jas10]

6 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said:

Tielemans, McGinn, Digne (if he’s still here). Maybe new players coming in. It’s the defending set pieces that bothers me more regardless of Dougie staying or going.

Would love to sign a player who could pose more of a consistent danger from direct fee kicks and score more beauties for us…

[allani]

1 minute ago, Xela said:

As others have said, i was comforted about how well we played in the 2 games without him in the games towards the end of the season. The only games we won!

Tielemens and McGinn (I think) were great there. 

Luiz will be a miss but he is replaceable. God speed Douglas. 

McGinn's defensive stats / discipline when he's playing deeper are pretty awful - his defensive stats when he is playing higher up the pitch and able to just focus on harrying the opposition are almost the exact opposite and pretty impressive.  We don't want SJM defending the edge of our box too often as he often fails to track his man - we need him annoying and hassling opposition players on or over the halfway line where he is at least two or three times the defensive player that he is when deeper.  Similarly, we don't want SJM receiving the ball at the edge of our box too often - we need him picking the ball up on or over the halfway line where he is at least two or three times the attacking player he is when deeper.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 minutes ago, Jas10 said:

Tielemans is not the answer to every problem posed by Luiz’s departure!

Sounds like something Callum Chambers would say

[Jas10]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Sounds like something Callum Chambers would say

[allani]

8 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Nobody is saying he’s not been important but he’s not irreplaceable. He’s also had some stinker performances. The point is, we have a very capable squad that will step up. The idea that Dougie’s absence somehow galvinised the team, not Unai’s tactical shifts just isn’t true. Nor did we have the luxury of options to rotate the quality of player with Dougie so arguably became too reliant on him so when he played poorly it had a bigger influence on our performances overall. 

I think that applies equally to pretty much everyone in the team.  Emi is probably the closest to being irreplaceable but he's had a couple of stinkers too.  Ollie's been fantastic but his form towards the end of the season was every bit as bad as Luiz and he still struggles to impose himself in certain matches / match situations.

I think we will have a very capable squad by the end of August though and am also confident that Emery will find a way of getting the best out of that squad.