Douglas Luiz

[zak]

16 minutes ago, Leeroy said:

Iling Junior and McKennie + €20m is a disgusting deal, I am ashamed by the club for this.

 

It also makes no sense, the reason we are selling Luiz is for financial reasons, €20m is f*ck all, we can't buy anyone with that. Two players who won't improve the first 11 won't make any difference.

 

I thought we were becoming a big club now with Monchi, Emery etc, obviously we aren't and are still having our pants pulled down by bigger clubs.

 

I don't see how we can finish top 4 again next season or even close to it when we are making deals like this and seeing our best players leave. 

Seriously, read other people's messages. 

The FFP restrictions are not net spend which you suggest. Selling Luiz for 70 mil and buying the 2 Juve players for 50 mil give us loads of wiggle room as purchases are spread over multiple years and sales are not

[zak]

12 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I don’t fully understand why we want players in return for Luiz if we’re after money to help with PSR/whatever.

I understand why Juve want that arrangement.

Unless the players being mentioned are ones we would be interested regardless.

Again lots of people have stated: players in return does not negatively effect PSR any more that selling a player and buying another in fact it's probably beneficial as you both teams would push the "actual purchase price"

[Leeroy]

3 minutes ago, CarryOnVilla said:

It’s not a swap deal. It’s a double purchase, for the books

We’re selling Doug for £60m (on the books right now)

we buying the cast offs for £40m (amortised over several years)

So if they were both given 5 year contracts that gives us a profit of €52m - equivalent to £44m. What can we do with that? We'll probably just buy another midfielder with it and not strengthen any of the defence which was obvious we needed to do this summer. 

 

All we're going to be doing this summer is bringing in players for those that leave, we won't get a right back, we won't get a holding midfielder, and people will wonder why we go backwards next season. 

 

Juventus are clearly getting the better end of the deal, it's a disgrace. I'd rather sell to Arsenal for £60m straight than to them. 

I didn't think the club would leave themselves so exposed to this, I thought they knew the financial rules well. It's a dangerous game selling an important player but at least when we sold Grealish we got £100m. This deal is absolute shite in comparison. 

 

We finish 4th in the league and this is what we get as a consequence, FML. No wonder we're always miserable even in the so-called "good times".

[HeyAnty]

Luiz is gone i think.  To who and for how much I don’t have a clue.  Juve deal seems rubbish to me.  Rather have 60-70m in cash

[duke313]

1 minute ago, HeyAnty said:

Luiz is gone i think.  To who and for how much I don’t have a clue.  Juve deal seems rubbish to me.  Rather have 60-70m in cash

Why?

[gaz90]

19 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I don’t fully understand why we want players in return for Luiz if we’re after money to help with PSR/whatever.

I understand why Juve want that arrangement.

Unless the players being mentioned are ones we would be interested regardless.

At least you're honest about it, unlike many people on here who appear to be infuriated by things that they don't fully understand (not just the PSR rules, but our financial position, needing a balanced squad with possibly many irons in the fire that will pan out over the coming months, the need to boost homegrown numbers for squad quotas etc.).

My understanding is that we sell Dougie for the full value of the deal e.g. McKennie is worth £20m, Iling-Junior is worth £20m and £20m cash, so Dougie is bought for £60m. We then buy those two for £20m apiece going the other way, but that is amortised over the span of the contract, so 5 year contracts mean the players cost £4m each year. So that's effectively £52m on our books for this year, barring a couple of other things, such as City's sell-on bonus (if it's still active) and the period over which those fees are amortised over (as its nearly the end of the account period).

The issue isn't about the money coming in. Nassef was effectively saying in the FT article this money that we're ambitious and we want to spend more than we can, but we're prevented by the rules. It's all about balancing the books unfortunately, but many other things come into play, such as Dougie having two years on his contract, possibly not being willing to sign a new contract and us taking whatever interest from other clubs that we get in players (which seems minimal at the moment, despite what people on this board are saying). 

To reiterate what others have said already, Emery has my full trust. I love Dougie and he'll be a big loss initially, but none of us know the full details and none of us know more about the pair from Juve than Emery (apparently Iling-Junior could be a future superstar). With what he's done to our players already, I think he's earned enough credit for us to trust him in this. Combine this with the fact that none of us really know all of the details of what's going on at the club, I think those that are getting angry should calm down, safe in the knowledge that we'll be a much better team next season than the one we were when Emery first came in. 

[Okonokos]

Whilst I'll be sad to see Luiz go, I really don't think he's as irreplaceable as some people think. Tielemans and McGinn are more irreplaceable, for me. If we can add Barkley in and he continues/improves on his form last season and then another quality centre mid signed, we'll be okay.

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Just now, gaz90 said:

At least you're honest about it, unlike many people on here who appear to be infuriated by things that they don't fully understand (not just the PSR rules, but our financial position, needing a balanced squad with possibly many irons in the fire that will pan out over the coming months, the need to boost homegrown numbers for squad quotas etc.).

My understanding is that we sell Dougie for the full value of the deal e.g. McKennie is worth £20m, Iling-Junior is worth £20m and £20m cash, so Dougie is bought for £60m. We then buy those two for £20m apiece going the other way, but that is amortised over the span of the contract, so 5 year contracts mean the players cost £4m each year. So that's effectively £52m on our books for this year, barring a couple of other things, such as City's sell-on bonus (if it's still active) and the period over which those fees are amortised over (as its nearly the end of the account period).

The issue isn't about the money coming in. Nassef was effectively saying in the FT article this money that we're ambitious and we want to spend more than we can, but we're prevented by the rules. It's all about balancing the books unfortunately, but many other things come into play, such as Dougie having two years on his contract, possibly not being willing to sign a new contract and us taking whatever interest from other clubs that we get in players (which seems minimal at the moment, despite what people on this board are saying). 

To reiterate what others have said already, Emery has my full trust. I love Dougie and he'll be a big loss initially, but none of us know the full details and none of us know more about the pair from Juve than Emery (apparently Iling-Junior could be a future superstar). With what he's done to our players already, I think he's earned enough credit for us to trust him in this. Combine this with the fact that none of us really know all of the details of what's going on at the club, I think those that are getting angry should calm down, safe in the knowledge that we'll be a much better team next season than the one we were when Emery first came in. 

We have a winner! Excellent post.

[zak]

Ok so let's say the Illing, McKennie & £20m is real.

Juve and Villa agree that Juve are buying Luiz for £75m and Villa are buying McKennie and Illing for £30m and £25m respectively on 5 year deals.

From a PSR point of view net profit this year of £64m 

We could then technically spend £320m on players on 5 year deals in addition to the 2 Juve players and come out evens from a PSR perspective 

 

Obviously I don't know if that's a good idea for Villas future financial situation but basically this deal would completely remove any PSR issues for this season

 

(I believe, @CVByrne does that sound right)

[HeyAnty]

4 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Why?

Because juve pair aren’t worth anywhere near 50m.  Especially when one is in last year of contract 

[MarkLillis]

3 minutes ago, Okonokos said:

Whilst I'll be sad to see Luiz go, I really don't think he's as irreplaceable as some people think. Tielemans and McGinn are more irreplaceable, for me. If we can add Barkley in and he continues/improves on his form last season and then another quality centre mid signed, we'll be okay.

Its not so much that he's irreplaceable.......i just think that he's very likable.

He likes us and we like him......he's also very good, which helps too.

[Okonokos]

Just now, MarkLillis said:

Its not so much that he's irreplaceable.......i just think that he's very likable.

He likes us and we like him......he's also very good, which helps too.

I'd be sadder if we sold Ramsey though. However much Luiz likes us, Ramsey loves us a lot more.

His form without Kamara in the team also worried me too. Like for the two games he was suspended for after his tenth booking against Brentford at home, I never thought we missed him at any stage in those two games (Arsenal away, Bournemout home - 6 points).

[Talldarkandransome]

I'll be sad to see Dougie go, great passer and calm on pens

[PaulMcGrath_5]

Just now, Talldarkandransome said:

I'll be sad to see Dougie go, great passer and calm on pens

Lovely hair too.

[duke313]

7 minutes ago, HeyAnty said:

Because juve pair aren’t worth anywhere near 50m.  Especially when one is in last year of contract 

They're worth whatever we or anyone is willing to pay.

[djdabush]

Villa fans think we are getting shafted, Juve fans think they are the ones who are getting screwed. I suspected it's probably a fairly decent deal for both sides and we will especially appreciate the wiggle room it will gives us with PSR.

[Jareth]

I don't mind a player swap, if he thinks he can use them then Emery always adds value to players

[Mr_Dogg]

Looks like he will go. But I'm struggling to believe this swap deal/part exchange thing. They rarely happen and rarely work out.

And surely he can do better than Juventus. Arsenal will surely just step in at some stage.

[Mark Albrighton]

3 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said:

Looks like he will go. But I'm struggling to believe this swap deal/part exchange thing. They rarely happen and rarely work out.

And surely he can do better than Juventus. Arsenal will surely just step in at some stage.

I find it preferable when players I like move abroad as opposed to staying in the league. 

I wouldn’t like to see Dougie in an Arsenal shirt. I would want a substantially better deal for that to happen.

As others are saying, trusting Unai is the thing. 

[PaulMcGrath_5]