Wesley Moraes

[Dr_Pangloss]

Kodjia has earned his place IMO. Not for a brace against a youth team but for his display last week, he came on and held the ball up much better than Wesley, linked the play better than Wesley and looked like he could do the basics much better than Wesley. 

Wesley has to be benched for not delivering. It's not that I think Kodjia is any good, because he's really not good at this level, but (a) he looked better last week and (b) we cannot reward players who do not deliver and play poorly by starting them week in week out. Wesley needs to be spending the next couple of weeks coming off the bench rather than starting.

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Kodjia has earned his place IMO. Not for a brace against a youth team but for his display last week, he came on and held the ball up much better than Wesley, linked the play better than Wesley and looked like he could do the basics much better than Wesley. 

Wesley has to be benched for not delivering. It's not that I think Kodjia is any good, because he's really not good at this level, but (a) he looked better last week and (b) we cannot reward players who do not deliver and play poorly by starting them week in week out. Wesley needs to be spending the next couple of weeks coming off the bench rather than starting.

Re (b) so that just means Jack and Heaton playing with the rest of the team playing so poorly so should be benched.

On a serious note I would tinker slightly with the formation and play Kodjia and Wes as the front two.

[Dr_Pangloss]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Re (b) so that just means Jack and Heaton playing with the rest of the team playing so poorly so should be benched.

On a serious note I would tinker slightly with the formation and play Kodjia and Wes as the front two.

Not really, that's just reductio ad absurdum, Wesley is quite clearly under-delivering consistently and in excess of any reasonable leeway that you'd give to an out of form player. Dropping him and utilising him as a sub option might serve to both give him a kick up the arse but would also take the pressure off him a little bit. 

[Guest av1]

4 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Not really, that's just reductio ad absurdum, Wesley is quite clearly under-delivering consistently and in excess of any reasonable leeway that you'd give to an out of form player. Dropping him and utilising him as a sub option might serve to both give him a kick up the arse but would also take the pressure off him a little bit. 

I can see your point, but as one of his better performances this season came against today's opponents I think he will start. 

[Dr_Pangloss]

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

I can see your point, but as one of his better performances this season came against today's opponents I think he will start. 

Whilst I think he should 100% be dropped I wouldn't be outraged if he started but if he doesn't deliver today there's really no argument for him starting against Watford.

[M_Afro]

6 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Not really, that's just reductio ad absurdum, Wesley is quite clearly under-delivering consistently and in excess of any reasonable leeway that you'd give to an out of form player. Dropping him and utilising him as a sub option might serve to both give him a kick up the arse but would also take the pressure off him a little bit. 

If Davis was available then maybe I would consider benching Wesley but Kodjia has not played well for years. Not since his first season at the club has he delivered consistently and then it was only at championship level. I really don’t get the fascination with Kodjia. Wesley is a much better option which is why he gets picked every week. 
 

Also, Wesley did really well against Norwich away. Maybe the return fixture is just what he needs to re-find his confidence.

Whatever happens we need 3 points so I hope we all get right behind Wesley and everybody else today. The players need us.

[Guest av1]

@Dr_Pangloss  Fair point. I'm slightly on the other side of the fence in that I'd prefer him to start over Kodjia but wouldn't be outraged if Kodjia came in. 

I guess both POV outline the need for reinforcements next month. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by av1

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

If Davis was available then maybe I would consider benching Wesley but Kodjia has not played well for years. Not since his first season at the club has he delivered consistently and then it was only at championship level. I really don’t get the fascination with Kodjia. Wesley is a much better option which is why he gets picked every week. 
 

Also, Wesley did really well against Norwich away. Maybe the return fixture is just what he needs to re-find his confidence.

Whatever happens we need 3 points so I hope we all get right behind Wesley and everybody else today. The players need us.

Kodjia came on last week and looked a lot better than Wesley, especially at the basics and the sorts of things a lot of people laud Wesley for, such as hold up and link play. 

Wesley is out of form and not delivering, he has been persisted with and continues to not deliver. Kodjia IMO is pretty shite but on the basis of looking better than Wesley last week and on the basis of Wesley not playing well for months he's worth a go. 

I'm sympathetic to the view that he did well against Norwich last time so he may do well again but if he doesn't produce something today he has to be out of the team. 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Dr_Pangloss

[Elton]

With another game in 2 days, I think  there is a high probability that Wesley and Kodjia will rotate the starting place. I expect Wesley will start today given his goals in the away fixture. 

[M_Afro]

1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Kodjia came on last week and looked a lot better than Wesley, especially at the basics and the sorts of things a lot of people laud Wesley for, such as hold up and link play. 

Wesley is out of form and not delivering, he has been persisted with and continues to not deliver. Kodjia IMO is pretty shite but on the basis of looking better than last week and on the basis of Wesley not playing well for months he's worth a go. 

I'm sympathetic to the view that he did well against Norwich last time so he may do well again but if he doesn't produce something today he has to be out of the team. 

Was he better than Wesley though? I genuinely thought that Wesley did ok. Even if he was slightly better, we are really only splitting hairs. The truth that can’t be ignored is the fact that no manager has fancied Kodjia since he broke his leg and also the fact that Kodjia has never ever been considered good enough to play in the premier league. 
Wesley is not having a great time obviously but in the absence of anything better we have to stick by him. Playing someone inferior, just for the sake of making a change, is not the way to go.

[Dr_Pangloss]

9 minutes ago, M_Afro said:

Was he better than Wesley though? I genuinely thought that Wesley did ok. Even if he was slightly better, we are really only splitting hairs. The truth that can’t be ignored is the fact that no manager has fancied Kodjia since he broke his leg and also the fact that Kodjia has never ever been considered good enough to play in the premier league. 
Wesley is not having a great time obviously but in the absence of anything better we have to stick by him. Playing someone inferior, just for the sake of making a change, is not the way to go.

Yes he was.

[Tomaszk]

He owes Smith so much. Hope he starts paying it back today.

[DCJonah]

On 24/12/2019 at 19:22, MotoMkali said:

Do they really keep the ball better than him though? At times against Southampton it looked like our midfielders were ball boys getting the balls that the Southampton players lost and passing it straight back to them. And Wesley is 1000 times better than Hogan. 

Yes wesley isn't scoring but lately no one but grealish is either. Yes wesley could be doing better but in the same vein he has had 21 fewer shots than maupay and scored 3 fewer goals. Whose to say if we were helping him average 3 shots a game he wouldn't be at least on 7 because it would mean he doesn't have to worry about whether he misses his only chance of the game which is often a ball that has been played behind him. 

Yes of course they do. 

Stats also show that.

[DCJonah]

On 24/12/2019 at 22:33, nick76 said:

Disagree, I was saying we needed another striker back in August before we started the season or had seen Wes in PL games.  Depending totally on Wes was just plain stupid, I mean how many young foreign strikers from lower quality leagues have ever come into the PL and smashed it?  Not many as a percentage I’m guessing.

For me, individually, he is doing fine for all the points I mentioned previously including 5 goals in 19.  Unfortunately we need more than that, I agree, because so much relies on goals and we are a fairly weak team, don’t support the striker well and aren’t playing to a forwards strengths.

To write him off is just silly, he’s far from the worst performer and he’s just being scapegoated.  Our midfield is weak, we concede too many goals from set pieces and we don’t support our striker and thats before I can assess our striker.

Our aim is 17th or above this season, we need more across the team but this constant thread bashing Wes baffles me.

So he is doing fine because you had low expectations? Not sure it works like that. 

 

[PussEKatt]

3 hours ago, av1 said:

We are not going to send our record signing on loan to the championship. 

Good thinking.Lets keep him as our main striker,leading the line.Im sure he will score 10 goals a season.

Lets hear it for WEsley

[DCJonah]

Oh oh Amazon Prime won't be popular on VT. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

Time to step up Wesley. Last chance saloon or replaced in January. 

[lexicon]

Absolutely zero service again so far.

 

Derp why don't he score goals though? 

[nick76]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

So he is doing fine because you had low expectations? Not sure it works like that. 

 

No because I had realistic expectations whereas some expected him to score like Tammy did for us but in the PL.  Not sure it works like that either.

[nick76]

Just now, lexicon said:

Absolutely zero service again so far.

 

Derp why don't he score goals though? 

Agree, going forwards we were awful and people wonder why he’s not scoring.