Racism Part two

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I agree....but this debate was instigated by someone being offended, by Monchie wearing a black face for an historical event in spain.

We are in danger of drifting off the point.

To debate Racism, it would end up like " War & Peace"......There are far more intellectual people than us, have no answers to how the species responds to difference.

 

TRO, the thread says racism. I say it as I see it, but that doesn't mean we have to fall out. We'll always have the Villa in common. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by sheepyvillian

[sheepyvillian]

57 minutes ago, VILLAMARV said:

nope, just a load of stuff about leicester and nft fraud

There you go.

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

TRO, the thread says racism. I say it as I see it, but that doesn't, mean we have to fall out. We'll always have the Villa in common. 

Yes, it does, but I was referring to this latest spike of debate.....We all have our stories to tell, My Dad was Irish and he experienced it when he first came to England, and saw " No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs " on signs in the windows of lodging houses.....and every other " Joke " years ago was at the expense of the Irish.....Or even the sign on a Lampost in Alum Rock a few years ago " No Whites after 7pm".......In order for racism to be tackled with purpose,  Tolerance has to be found and thats not easy to find in EVERY individual. Personally, I was apalled at cabbaggate, that wasn't racist, but it was deeply offensive to his friends and family and to people like me who found it offensive behaviour.....There is no accounting for certain people of all persuasions, sadly it might always be that way.

I would hazard a guess that negotiating the Soho Rd late at night,for a white stranger, could be tricky, too sheepy.

I went to a Shebeen one night, many moons ago, In Balsall Heath where, I was the only White man in there, it was rocking, I was the local pub landlord at the time and they treated me really, really well. I was trusted, so it makes a huge difference, even though many strangers were present.

We all have our stories, which ultimately shape our views and opinions.....both  sides have to be considered.....We live in a historically white populated country, so time, has taught us much, integration has been helped by mixed marriages and judging by your comments and a few others, we have learnt to be tolerant of the skin colour, as it should  be,....we still have much to learn, all of us, relating to culture and religion....but we have to remember each one of us has our own views......Even when we support AVFC we differ on how that is done....Individual personalities play a huge role in all this.

My overall point is, we all have our own views of what is offensive and what is not, we don't need the media to tell us, because thats only their view too.

I wasn't offended by what Monchie did, but I respect the views of others if they was.

Ps Shaun ( Jamaican-Villa) would be a good person to ask.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[TRO]

38 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

TRO, the thread says racism. I say it as I see it, but that doesn't, mean we have to fall out. We'll always have the Villa in common. 

No intention of falling out with anyone Sheepy, its such a deep and diverse subject.....and I am no intellect, to offer a solution.

I need to get back to Villa....another deep subject

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[sheepyvillian]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

Ps Shaun ( Jamaican-Villa) would be a good person to ask

He can only speak for himself. I know a lot of black people who would say they personally weren't offended, but you can bet your bottom dollar, that there would be others who would say they were offended. 

Let's be clear, it's not the thing to do, whatever the intention. Society should be trying to move on.

Edited June 26, 2023 by sheepyvillian

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

He can only speak for himself. I know a lot of black people who would say they personally weren't offended, but you can bet your bottom dollar, that there would be others who would say they were offended. 

Let's be clear, it's not the thing to do, whatever the intention. Society should be trying to move on.

Sure.

[Stevo985]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

It happens the other way around too.....I'm not offended as it is probably in context.

we can't turn this in to a monologue....I'm out.

Ffs are we still on this?!

[MakemineVanilla]

17 hours ago, TRO said:

To debate Racism, it would end up like " War & Peace"......There are far more intellectual people than us, have no answers to how the species responds to difference.

 

I think it is possible to make the case that Dawkins' "selfish gene" theory would predict a preference for one's own race, as we are driven to perpetuate our own genes.

Even oxytocin, the so-called "cuddle chemical" which stimulates mother-baby bonding, only increases a liking for those we already like.

Xenophobia originates in the amygdala but it is the frontal cortex which modifies our response.

If prejudice has its origins in physiology, then it seems likely to persist.

 

 

[Follyfoot]

2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I think it is possible to make the case that Dawkins' "selfish gene" theory would predict a preference for one's own race, as we are driven to perpetuate our own genes.

Even oxytocin, the so-called "cuddle chemical" which stimulates mother-baby bonding, only increases a liking for those we already like.

Xenophobia originates in the amygdala but it is the frontal cortex which modifies our response.

If prejudice has its origins in physiology, then it seems likely to persist.

 

 

So, in a nutshell, all races are genetically racist

Edited June 27, 2023 by Follyfoot

[TRO]

2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

I think it is possible to make the case that Dawkins' "selfish gene" theory would predict a preference for one's own race, as we are driven to perpetuate our own genes.

Even oxytocin, the so-called "cuddle chemical" which stimulates mother-baby bonding, only increases a liking for those we already like.

Xenophobia originates in the amygdala but it is the frontal cortex which modifies our response.

If prejudice has its origins in physiology, then it seems likely to persist.

 

 

You are far more intelligent than me, to understand all that.

I just go with what my simple mind allows me to go with.......I think to be reasonable or tolerant, can take us a long way.....but equally that reason and tolerance can be tested, by someone who wants to do us harm......as the old saying goes, " it takes two to tango"

 

[mjmooney]

Confession time. 

Back in the mid-1980s, a mate and I used to regularly do a local charity race (Oxenhope Straw Race): 

Quote

Each summer the village holds an annual Straw Race. The race was inaugurated in 1976 and since then has raised £300,000 for charity from its participants via sponsorship. Competitors are required to carry a bale of straw (20 kg) 2+1⁄2 miles (4.0 km) between five public houses in the Oxenhope area and drink a beer in each pub. The last stretch to the Dog & Gun Pub is 1+1⁄2 miles (2.4 km) uphill, past Leeming Reservoir. Many of the competitors wear fancy dress.

Wikipedia

So, this one year, we did the fancy dress thing as... Zulus. Not the small heath hooligan firm, the African tribal warriors. Cowhide shields, assegais, grass skirts, and full black makeup. 

Were/are we racists? No, not in the slightest. With hindsight, was it racist? Without a doubt, yes. 

 

 

[DCJonah]

23 hours ago, TRO said:

It happens the other way around too.....I'm not offended as it is probably in context.

we can't turn this in to a monologue....I'm out.

Is this a joke?

[foreveryoung]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Confession time. 

Back in the mid-1980s, a mate and I used to regularly do a local charity race (Oxenhope Straw Race): 

So, this one year, we did the fancy dress thing as... Zulus. Not the small heath hooligan firm, the African tribal warriors. Cowhide shields, assegais, grass skirts, and full black makeup. 

Were/are we racists? No, not in the slightest. With hindsight, was it racist? Without a doubt, yes. 

 

 

It's been said on here, anyone who says a racist comment, even if they don't mean it is racist. Also anyone who dresses up blackface is also racist. So chap you must be a historical racist, don't matter it was in the 80's. 

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

It's been said on here, anyone who says a racist comment, even if they don't mean it is racist. Also anyone who dresses up blackface is also racist. So chap you must be a historical racist, don't matter it was in the 80's. 

Pretty much what I just said. It wasn't 'intentionally racist', but I can see now that it was racist in effect. 

[Chindie]

If it makes everyone feel better, the author and commentator Ibram X Kendi states that everything is either racist or anti-racist, and thus unless your actions are explicitly anti-racist then they are racist regardless by way of, at best, inaction.

[Mister_a]

15 hours ago, Chindie said:

If it makes everyone feel better, the author and commentator Ibram X Kendi states that everything is either racist or anti-racist, and thus unless your actions are explicitly anti-racist then they are racist regardless by way of, at best, inaction.

Cool a circular kafka trap, that will help clear things up.

[bickster]

15 hours ago, Chindie said:

If it makes everyone feel better, the author and commentator Ibram X Kendi states that everything is either racist or anti-racist, and thus unless your actions are explicitly anti-racist then they are racist regardless by way of, at best, inaction.

So if I boil an egg I'm racist but if I draw a swastika on it before I pop it in the pan it's anti-racist?

[sne]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

So if I boil an egg I'm racist but if I draw a swastika on it before I pop it in the pan it's anti-racist?

Is it a white egg or a brown one? 

[VILLAMARV]

4 minutes ago, bickster said:

So if I boil an egg I'm racist but if I draw a swastika on it before I pop it in the pan it's anti-racist?

you're not an egg so you can't say that

[Chindie]

29 minutes ago, bickster said:

So if I boil an egg I'm racist but if I draw a swastika on it before I pop it in the pan it's anti-racist?

You'd have to ask Ibram. I'm no expert.