Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: I’m definitely not confused at all Why isn’t what Rashford did the same as BLM? When did BLM ever disrupt a football game? Gary Lineker doesn’t bring politics into his football punditry, why shouldn’t he have an opinion outside of his job? He’s not a political or current events journalist, he doesn’t need to appear unbiased politically for his work. None of this things have ever stopped you watching a football game either, I'm not sure why you imagine they have. I didnt say i had a issue with the bending the knee your getting confused again. Find me where i said it? If you read the post i said i was ok with it. There has been a lot of talk post and beginning game about BLM and politics. Neville loves talking about non football related things and i switch off. This isnt about BLM its about non footballing issues like talking about tory government like my example about linkear. Its ok if you just want to sit and watch a game of football for 90 minutes and just football being discussed. Dont see what the issue is? If i want to see labour or the Conservatives getting criticised ill just put the bbc or read the mirror. Edited May 23, 2023 by Demitri_C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 10 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Well not really, cause at least it shows some, i.e us, are trying harder than others to kick it out. We can surely make the point that things have changed for the better in certain areas (fewer bananas at the football grounds than when I was a lad is the obvious go to in my mind) without the need for comparing racial bigotry in place A and racial bigotry in place B. As no one has mentioned the penalties yet - is it better bigotry because it's online rather than in Spanish stadia? And better/worse in what way? It's comparing an irrational dislike based on race with an irrational dislike based on race. Even if they present differently it's the same thing. It's all bigotry. It's not really quantifiable. It just is or isn't present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mjmooney Posted May 23, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2023 Opposition to racism is not 'politics', it's humanity. Black Lives Matter is a concept, not an organisation. If you're opposed to taking the knee, you may not think you are being racist, but you are demonstrably aligning yourself with racists. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Opposition to racism is not 'politics', it's humanity. Black Lives Matter is a concept, not an organisation. If you're opposed to taking the knee, you may not think you are being racist, but you are demonstrably aligning yourself with racists. As I said I'm not gonna get involved in this debate again, but that's a load of bollocks. Zaha racist is he? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 I'm booing the anti-racism campaign because... There's not really a good or just way of ending that sentance to my way of thinking. I take on board the point that Joe Bloggs in seat 46b might not have an irrational hatred of someone based on race and joined in the booing for some other reason he uses to justify it to himself, or was saying boo-urns. But Joe has to realise that booing an anti-racism campaign makes him look like a massive racist. He's publically booing an anti-racism campaign ffs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Top level sport has always been political when it comes to racism. Just ask Jesse Owens. If your opposition to people taking a knee is because "you just want to watch sport and don't want to be subjected to a political message" then I suggest it might be because you don't like the specific message. No footballer has come out and asked for "defunding of police" or anything remotely "marxist". Just for an end to racial prejudice and injustice. It's no coincidence that the fans that seem to have the biggest problem with this are the usual suspects. I could list them but I'm sure that some snowflakes might be offended by the company they're keeping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Top level sport has always been political when it comes to racism. Just ask Jesse Owens. If your opposition to people taking a knee is because "you just want to watch sport and don't want to be subjected to a political message" then I suggest it might be because you don't like the specific message. No footballer has come out and asked for "defunding of police" or anything remotely "marxist". Just for an end to racial prejudice and injustice. It's no coincidence that the fans that seem to have the biggest problem with this are the usual suspects. I could list them but I'm sure that some snowflakes might be offended by the company they're keeping. For me its not the message as such, i mean im glad they are making some steps into tackling it. Id never boo, endorse encourage any behaviour towards anything thats stopping racism. Sometimes though i just want to just watch a game of football and not see them talking about the issues in the world like tory government. We know they are shit i dont need to reminded of it when im watching a game of football. Thats all im just trying to say =] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, foreveryoung said: As I said I'm not gonna get involved in this debate again, but that's a load of bollocks. Zaha racist is he? Zaha chose not to take the knee. He didn't boo his fellow professionals. Plenty could "not agree with it" and just stand there, remaining silent. Many didn't; they boo'd. Why did they boo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: For me its not the message as such, i mean im glad they are making some steps into tackling it. Id never boo, endorse encourage any behaviour towards anything thats stopping racism. Sometimes though i just want to just watch a game of football and not see them talking about the issues in the world like tory government. We know they are shit i dont need to reminded of it when im watching a game of football. Thats all im just trying to say =] And that's fine, you're not openly opposing the message by booing or anything. No one is stopping anyone from watching a game of football. It's about 5 seconds of politicial message so they're hardly ramming the message home. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: And that's fine, you're not openly opposing the message by booing or anything. No one is stopping anyone from watching a game of football. It's about 5 seconds of politicial message so they're hardly ramming the message home. Yeah my main objection isnt the bending the knee its more the match of the day with linekar when it starts getting political and neville harping on about the tories Why not just go on a politics programme and argue your point?! There is plenty of shows for that Edited May 23, 2023 by Demitri_C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: its more the match of the day with linekar when it starts getting political Any specific examples of that? Given that he he's attacked when he tweets something on a personal level on his own Twitter account, the BBC is notoriously apolitical or "balanced" in such programming and MOTD is fairly scripted and not broadcast live. I'd seriously doubt it ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 The problem with the BLM movement for me was that the title itself is so hijackable by racists or trolls and with it being so associated with the cesspit of social media it made people more and more entrenched in their views/prejudice. You then ended up with booing from the morons and then the taking of the knee which went on so long that it really lost its meaning and just became a process you largely ignored before the game. Football has the Kick It Out programme which has done a lot of good work imo and much harder to be manipulated, it's just always there on players' t-shirts, hoardings, TV adverts at half time, the rainbow laces is a great idea etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, bickster said: Any specific examples of that? Given that he he's attacked when he tweets something on a personal level on his own Twitter account, the BBC is notoriously apolitical or "balanced" in such programming and MOTD is fairly scripted and not broadcast live. I'd seriously doubt it ever happened. I had a search an the results were muddied by people getting angry about his tweets. He may have sand the praises of Keir Hardie before going over to Guy Mowbrey at St James Park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: The problem with the BLM movement for me was that the title itself is so hijackable by racists or trolls and with it being so associated with the cesspit of social media it made people more and more entrenched in their views/prejudice. You then ended up with booing from the morons and then the taking of the knee which went on so long that it really lost its meaning and just became a process you largely ignored before the game. Football has the Kick It Out programme which has done a lot of good work imo and much harder to be manipulated, it's just always there on players' t-shirts, hoardings, TV adverts at half time, the rainbow laces is a great idea etc. It probably has, but I'm not really aware of anything. Prejudice is never highlighted by the programme in games particularly. I can't think of anything at all that links Kick It Out to what they're about - I just know that this particular programme is about fighting abuse in the game but it's non-impactful (again, as far as I'm aware). Rainbow laces and the like, if promoted properly, is good though. That's why I think taking the knee - or a similar gesture - is a really good thing. You'll have kids asking "Why are they kneeling?" and then it gets an explanation so the message is understood. I don't think anyone really asks "why is Kick It Out on that t-shirt?". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Hobsons Choice Posted May 23, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted May 23, 2023 Taking 5 seconds to support the disenfranchised. Not killing us to do that is it? If it helps we could change it to a tannoy announcement saying 'don't be a racist dick'. The form it takes is irrelevant. I like the knee, and if it gives even one black family in the stands the slightest bit of solidarity and comfort, then it's well worth it. The 'all lives matter' folks have missed the point so, so badly. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, bickster said: Any specific examples of that? Given that he he's attacked when he tweets something on a personal level on his own Twitter account, the BBC is notoriously apolitical or "balanced" in such programming and MOTD is fairly scripted and not broadcast live. I'd seriously doubt it ever happened. I'll be honest I'd thought I'd seen him make a few subtle comments with a nod and wink to the camera .. similar to the Ant and Dec " Evening Prime Minister" thing but that would hardly be grounds to have me writing to points of view about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 30 minutes ago, bickster said: Any specific examples of that? Given that he he's attacked when he tweets something on a personal level on his own Twitter account, the BBC is notoriously apolitical or "balanced" in such programming and MOTD is fairly scripted and not broadcast live. I'd seriously doubt it ever happened. World cup final - (ok its not sky so you got a loophole one up on me ) but i remember neville was asked about the working conditions in qatar and then neville starting harping on about nurses etc state of country etc. Although i agree with everything he said, i hear it all the time on the news i would rather focus on the football game that i have tuned into. Be nice to just forget how depressing this country is for 180 minutes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2023 21 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: World cup final - (ok its not sky so you got a loophole one up on me ) but i remember neville was asked about the working conditions in qatar and then neville starting harping on about nurses etc state of country etc. Although i agree with everything he said, i hear it all the time on the news i would rather focus on the football game that i have tuned into. Be nice to just forget how depressing this country is for 180 minutes We're talking about Lineker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, bickster said: We're talking about Lineker I mentioned neville as well. Why you want a example of him and not neville? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 23, 2023 Moderator Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I mentioned neville as well. Why you want a example of him and not neville? Because you said... 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: its more the match of the day with linekar when it starts getting political And that is literally the bit I'm talking about. You've made it up, it doesn't happen yet you object to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts