Racism Part two

[Chindie]

24 minutes ago, Designer1 said:

Ah I see. @Chindie is making stuff up now. Gotcha.

Well, I can say with absolute certainty I'm not (and I know you're not saying I am @Designer1) as I saw the guy writing the text because, on a packed commuter train leaving New Street, the back of his head was level with my shoulder and I glanced over his shoulder as he was typing. 

He was a middle aged white bloke with greying hair wearing vaguely outdoorsy kit, had a rucksack between his feet, and we were rammed in the train by the doors. 

Obviously I can't know the context, maybe he's got a very good relationship with his black friends. Maybe his missus/partner is black and it's an in-joke. Or maybe the guy was just a bit racist, going home to his partner somewhere near Lichfield and texting her that he was on the train that there was a lot of black people on it and he felt uneasy about it. Or just found it funny deriding a whole section of society as thieves and criminals.

But I definitely saw the text. Me. First hand. I'm not a liar. I've got no reason to lie about it. I don't really care if anyone doesn't believe it or not. I saw the guy do it. It was pretty grim to see it, that that kind of thing was still going round.

[foreveryoung]

Let me put you guys straight as to what I ment, since some are getting the popcorn out to the replies.

My belief was, yes, it's just been posted to fit the narrative .

Anyway, is it a racist slur, yes, of a kind, but it would hardly sit well as evidence of a institutionally racist country. An I find it hard to believe the person who said it, if true, is a racist, like is being made out on here.

Am I a racist, If you think I am, an you have worked this out from a few opposing opinions posted on a forum, your in the wrong job. I have read a few times "he must be racist", "I don't want to speak to a racist", an it makes me laugh, as in my whole life off this forum, like in the real world, at work and also being a very social person, I have never been called racist, or been told I have been crossed to the line at any time, or though is that because my social circles are racist too!!

[bickster]

 

[Ingram85]

“Darkies. Racist “

“Darkies is a slur. Of a kind.”

Oh sorry, it’s all us misinterpreting your sage like words yet again. How foolish of us. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Ingram85

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

You are missing the point completely, I doubt for one minute he thinks the quote is not racist, he is disputing the validity of the post actually happening in the real world. I have not offered an opinion, only the way I read it 

I think you’re the only one reading it like that to be honest. And I suspect that’s because it’s the way you want to read it

[Demitri_C]

58 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Let me put you guys straight as to what I ment, since some are getting the popcorn out to the replies.

My belief was, yes, it's just been posted to fit the narrative .

Anyway, is it a racist slur, yes, of a kind, but it would hardly sit well as evidence of a institutionally racist country. An I find it hard to believe the person who said it, if true, is a racist, like is being made out on here.

Am I a racist, If you think I am, an you have worked this out from a few opposing opinions posted on a forum, your in the wrong job. I have read a few times "he must be racist", "I don't want to speak to a racist", an it makes me laugh, as in my whole life off this forum, like in the real world, at work and also being a very social person, I have never been called racist, or been told I have been crossed to the line at any time, or though is that because my social circles are racist too!!

My popcorn went stale waiting for your reply mate 

[Follyfoot]

36 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think you’re the only one reading it like that to be honest. And I suspect that’s because it’s the way you want to read it

Well you’re suspicions are wrong and he has just confirmed the way it was intended but hey ho 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Follyfoot

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Let me put you guys straight as to what I ment, since some are getting the popcorn out to the replies.

My belief was, yes, it's just been posted to fit the narrative .

Anyway, is it a racist slur, yes, of a kind, but it would hardly sit well as evidence of a institutionally racist country. An I find it hard to believe the person who said it, if true, is a racist, like is being made out on here.

He didn’t say it was evidence of institutional racism - he used it as an example of the “petty” racism which still exists.

I’m staggered that anyone thinks someone writing that wouldn’t be racist, though. “Darkies on the train. Probably get mugged”. I mean, it’s racist as ****  

[fruitvilla]

From two different eras

When I was courting my missus, her family had a retired greyhound called Darkie. Even in the mid-seventies, I would not have deemed this wise. I can only imagine taking the Dog for a walk on Clapham Common and calling the dog back when it strayed too far.

Earlier on in life in King's Heath, the neighbour's labrador was called Blackie for obvious reasons.

I don't know the intent behind calling the dog Darkie, was a nice dog as greyhounds go.

I sometimes want to subscribe to the Jungian theory when we find something we don't like in another person, it is partly a fear that it is in us too.

[foreveryoung]

9 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He didn’t say it was evidence of institutional racism - he used it as an example of the “petty” racism which still exists.

I’m staggered that anyone thinks someone writing that wouldn’t be racist, though. “Darkies on the train. Probably get mugged”. I mean, it’s racist as ****  

Make your mind up. Petty or racist as *******!.

Racist, as **** or someone who don't realise what they are saying. We don't know him, he could be approached and 100% apologies for his actions, saying it was just a silly comment to make, I mean he didn't actually say it to them and how do we know he ever would.

Petty, I agree. Although if he said these n*****s could mug me, 100% racist and no apologies required as they wouldn't be accepted.

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Make your mind up. Petty or racist as *******!.

Racist, as **** or someone who don't realise what they are saying. We don't know him, he could be approached and 100% apologies for his actions, saying it was just a silly comment to make, I mean he didn't actually say it to them and how do we know he ever would.

Petty, I agree. Although if he said these n*****s could mug me, 100% racist and no apologies required as they wouldn't be accepted.

You’re mixing me up with explaining the original post I think?

To be honest, it doesn’t matter if he put “darkie” or “n****r”. It’s not any better. 

[bobzy]

8 minutes ago, fruitvilla said:

From two different eras

When I was courting my missus, her family had a retired greyhound called Darkie. Even in the mid-seventies, I would not have deemed this wise. I can only imagine taking the Dog for a walk on Clapham Common and calling the dog back when it strayed too far.

Earlier on in life in King's Heath, the neighbour's labrador was called Blackie for obvious reasons.

I don't know the intent behind calling the dog Darkie, was a nice dog as greyhounds go.

I sometimes want to subscribe to the Jungian theory when we find something we don't like in another person, it is partly a fear that it is in us too.

I understand what you’re saying about the different eras. My grandma regularly referred to black people as “darkies”. “The lovely darkie who lives up the road” - it was never said offensively (then again, when I had a job at the Home Office, she also said to “keep them out” so it probably wasn’t as jovial a term as I had in my head when I was a kid…).

This message isn’t a jovial one though. It’s specifically linking the fact that there are a few black people on a train with the likelihood of being mugged purely based on that. This is what makes it entirely racist. 

[Ingram85]

The fact that it did or didn’t happen is a side issue.

We have a poster on here who literally typed that using the term ‘Darkie’ isn’t racist. There’s no misconstruing that. 

“Darkies. Racist “. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Ingram85

[fruitvilla]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

This message isn’t a jovial one though. It’s specifically linking the fact that there are a few black people on a train with the likelihood of being mugged purely based on that. This is what makes it entirely racist.

I don't know what was going through the texter's mind.

[ml1dch]

Just now, Ingram85 said:

The fact that it did or didn’t happen is a side issue.

We have a poster who literally typed that using the term ‘Darkie’ isn’t racist. There’s no misconstruing that. 

“Darkies. Racist “. 

And more to the point, that the presence of such people meant that it was likely that he would be physically assaulted.

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said:

My friends in teaching say that children don't become obsessed with difference until they reach adolescence, when the bullying and teasing starts in earnest.

I may have done this story before, but whatever... 

Whe my kids were at primary school (they'd have been about 8 and 6 respectively), they were having a chat in the car about their friends. The older one mentioned a name, but her sister didn't recognise it. The conversation went along the following lines: "You know her - she's in Mrs So-and-so's class. Quite tall. She's good at football. (thinks)... She's friends with so-and-so... got brown skin... usually has yellow ribbons in her hair.. (etc.)" 

Two things struck me: the brown skin was well down the list of identifiers she could think of (I'd bet virtually all adults would have mentioned that first), and the fact that it wasn't even the thing that jogged little sister's recognition, it was some later part of the character sketch. Race was genuinely so irrelevant to them, that they barely noticed it. 

When the eldest was in year 6, we moved from what was a very cosmopolitan area to a rather posher leafy suburb. They settled into their new school really easily, but at the end of her first week, the 11 year old said to me: "School's fine, Dad, but there was something that felt odd about it. Couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I've just realised what it is - all the kids are white. How weird is that?" 

[MakemineVanilla]

25 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I may have done this story before, but whatever... 

Whe my kids were at primary school (they'd have been about 8 and 6 respectively), they were having a chat in the car about their friends. The older one mentioned a name, but her sister didn't recognise it. The conversation went along the following lines: "You know her - she's in Mrs So-and-so's class. Quite tall. She's good at football. (thinks)... She's friends with so-and-so... got brown skin... usually has yellow ribbons in her hair.. (etc.)" 

Two things struck me: the brown skin was well down the list of identifiers she could think of (I'd bet virtually all adults would have mentioned that first), and the fact that it wasn't even the thing that jogged little sister's recognition, it was some later part of the character sketch. Race was genuinely so irrelevant to them, that they barely noticed it. 

When the eldest was in year 6, we moved from what was a very cosmopolitan area to a rather posher leafy suburb. They settled into their new school really easily, but at the end of her first week, the 11 year old said to me: "School's fine, Dad, but there was something that felt odd about it. Couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I've just realised what it is - all the kids are white. How weird is that?" 

I think you made a big leap in assuming it was about race, as it seems more likely that if you moved to a more prosperous area, the children in the catchment area would be better dressed and possibly healthier looking.

I can certainly remember the contrast between a junior school in a council area and the school I moved to in an area of owner-occupiers. The few poor kids who were obviously from dysfunctional homes, were named, shamed, and generally stigmatised. Getting a free school dinners was a mark of shame, which they eventually had the good sense to stop.

As we all found out when we moved to senior school, the uniform was supposed to be the great leveller, but as everyone knew the difference between a blazer bought at The House That Jack Built, in Newtown, was not the same as the smart blazers the posh kids wore.

I think children are a lot more class conscious than race conscious.

As Malcolm Gladwell explained in The Tipping-Point: every school kid knows who the cool kids are, and it is not based on race.

 

 

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, Ingram85 said:

The fact that it did or didn’t happen is a side issue.

But that's the racist swerve

Don't forget that black lives matter is really only about defunding the police

[MakemineVanilla]

I remember the good old days, when you could feel smugly virtuous while watching films like, In The Heat of the Night, To Kill a Mocking Bird, and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner. Then there was Hot Chocolate's Brother Louie, and of course, Dylan's Only a Pawn in the Game, and the Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll. You could even listen to a heated row between your uncles about Mr Smith declaring UDI, and feel good about yourself for knowing it was a bad thing. You might even shed a few tears at the sheer beauty of Bob Marley's live recording of No Woman, No Cry, or a bit later, Redemption Song. The British revival of the blues, and it's literal worship by the boomer generation, is another tale entirely.

Race was irrelevent we declared; we are all the same!

What innocent times they were, but then "intersectionality" entered the political lexicon, and the white male was suddenly guilty of oppressing everyone.

Hey Bob, the times they have certainly changed, but not really for the better.

[Vive_La_Villa]

19 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

The point the fella is making is that he doubts very much there is any truth in the alleged peeping at a text on the train allegation. He has a point as well, anecdotal evidence such as this has been discounted as not reliable many times before if it does not fit the narrative, I have been a victim of it myself quoting one of my black friends and being being shot down In flames on this very thread during the upheaval after Floyd was murdered.

He’s not quoting whether it is a racist statement or not of course it is, He is making the point that it fits at the narrative of that we are terribly racist society that many like to adhere to, which on a whole we are not IMO 

I read it as him not thinking it is racist tbh which is he entitled too.
 

But if the OP meant something else he could have been clearer about it.

edit: sorry I posted and then realised we’ve moved on since then. Need to try keep up. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa