Racism Part two

[sparrow1988]

21 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Tanning is just fashion. White people like to look darker because that's the fashion. I'm sure we'll get to a point, probably when skin cancer awareness grows even more, where it'll be fashionable to be as pale as possible

This is good news for me.

[sparrow1988]

28 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I  would like to see the percentage of people who tan because they see it as high status??

People tan to feel better about themselves in the present. If we keep looking at history to justify racism we will never move on.

Isn't feeling better about yourself the same as trying to achieve a higher status? Buying new jeans, a new car, new shoes even though the old ones are working fine. We've all done it. You can define as achieving a higher status or making yourself feel better. It's the same thing.

Edited July 7, 2022 by sparrow1988

[blandy]

2 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Thought I'd ask this here rather than bog down the tory thread

After Genie asked the question and I said IMO no, rishi would not win a GE in the UK due to his ethnicity, I don't think the general public in the UK would do it, a black man maybe at a stretch but not an Asian, therefore the tories won't put him forward as leader 

Nothing to do with Rishi or the tories or any politics just pure racism 

Maybe Im being incredibly harsh on the voting public 

Well, there are lots of MPs from different ethnic backgrounds. And they got there due to being elected by the public.

Of course the Public is not the Tory party MPs and then membership, yet there is quite a mix of Tory MP backgrounds, too.

And Sunak scores highly (or did before his fine and tax situation) with the Tory membership and MPs.

So I think you're being harsh on the voting public overall. What I do suspect is that any prospective candidate put to the nation - if they had a strong accent from their ethnic background, or dresses in traditional dress from another nation, or were strongly religious - then that would perhaps mean they would be disadvantaged in terms of getting votes across the board (though it might help them with a particular segment of the voters).

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

I think you're being harsh on the voting public overall. What I do suspect is that any prospective candidate put to the nation - if they had a strong accent from their ethnic background, or dresses in traditional dress from another nation, or were strongly religious - then that would perhaps mean they would be disadvantaged in terms of getting votes across the board (though it might help them with a particular segment of the voters).

Yes, provided they can speak posh, you can close your eyes and pretend they're almost white. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

Yes, provided they can speak posh, you can close your eyes and pretend they're almost white. 

Maybe, but I genuinely don't think it's quite that, er, black and white. I think it's more like "recognisably English/British" (as in modern Britain, not 1950s Britain). People understand there are people from different backgrounds, and they're fine with that...as long as they are not too unlike "us" - too Muslim, too Jewish, too West Indian, too American, too Indian - where "too" is they seem more [whatever] than British (or English in England).

I'm writing my take on the voting public, not my take on the hypothetical individuals, to be clear.

[MakemineVanilla]

37 minutes ago, villaglint said:

This is already the case in Australia. For a lot of people having a big tan is not cool and being as pale as possible is. 

That seems to confirm Veblen's theory that things are valued according to their association with high social status - when everyone has a tan there just isn't any kudos to be had.

It is always amazing how much effort people put into getting a tan on the costas, just to prove they had a good holiday.

A neighbour of mine always used to find something to do in his front garden, when he returned from holiday, so the locals could compliment his tan.

 

[foreveryoung]

8 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

That seems to confirm Veblen's theory that things are valued according to their association with high social status - when everyone has a tan there just isn't any kudos to be had.

It is always amazing how much effort people put into getting a tan on the costas, just to prove they had a good holiday.

A neighbour of mine always used to find something to do in his front garden, when he returned from holiday, so the locals could compliment his tan.

 

But tanning and looking good is nothing to do with racism, as @maqroll was highlighting, or proving they had a good holiday, really?  There is no doubt a nice tan makes you look good, an people wanna look good, even if it's better then the women down the street, nothing wrong with that at all.

[villaglint]

51 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

That seems to confirm Veblen's theory that things are valued according to their association with high social status - when everyone has a tan there just isn't any kudos to be had.

It is always amazing how much effort people put into getting a tan on the costas, just to prove they had a good holiday.

A neighbour of mine always used to find something to do in his front garden, when he returned from holiday, so the locals could compliment his tan.

 

More about skin cancer I think. It’s a big issue and it’s not cool. 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

But tanning and looking good is nothing to do with racism, as @maqroll was highlighting, or proving they had a good holiday, really?  There is no doubt a nice tan makes you look good, an people wanna look good, even if it's better then the women down the street, nothing wrong with that at all.

It's not "racism" driving these industries, it's profit. Through their messaging they tell us that who we are isn't good enough. It's basic marketing. In northern Europe you think you "look good" when your skin is darker because of the messaging. In South Asia, you think you look good when your skin is lighter because of messaging. 

FWIW, I agree that a suntan looks good on normally pale skin, so I've bought into the message as well!

Edited July 7, 2022 by maqroll

[foreveryoung]

19 minutes ago, maqroll said:

It's not "racism" driving these industries, it's profit. Through their messaging they tell us that who we are isn't good enough. It's basic marketing. In northern Europe you think you "look good" when your skin is darker because of the messaging. In South Asia, you think you look good when your skin is lighter because of messaging. 

FWIW, I agree that a suntan looks good on normally pale skin, so I've bought into the message as well!

So what's it doing in this thread?

We all live off messages, for example buy cars because of marketing messages, want bigger houses etc. Its how we live our lives, your calling it a issue when it's not.

[maqroll]

13 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So what's it doing in this thread?

Chillax bro

Someone mentioned Asian actors changing their appearance to be more "bankable", other people commented on that and so did I. 

Have I struck a nerve with you?

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, maqroll said:

Chillax bro

Someone mentioned Asian actors changing their appearance to be more "bankable", other people commented on that and so did I. 

Have I struck a nerve with you?

No, but you commented that people tan and wear make up, to become more like other enthities which is simply not true.

[rjw63]

Wacko Jacko had all the black features he was born with surgically altered. Always seems to get a free pass though. 

Not racist, just an odd choice. 

[lapal_fan]

2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

No, but you commented that people tan and wear make up, to become more like other enthities which is simply not true.

There are people who do do it, and then identify as an entirely different ethnicity - like the dudes who were white guys, who now identify as Korean. 

So it CAN be true, just not for the vast majority.

But as with all things like race/LGBTQ+, you can't deal with absolutes. 

[maqroll]

8 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

No, but you commented that people tan and wear make up, to become more like other enthities which is simply not true.

I think it is very true with some people, not all. I think some Indian people in India in particular have internalized messaging that white skin is better than brown skin. Eyelid surgery is a huge industry in East Asia for similar reasons. Hair straightener in Africa. And the tanning bed industry for white people is part of the same phenomenon. Taking measures that often times carry risk of injury or disease to appear different to your regular everyday natural appearance.

Edited July 7, 2022 by maqroll

[Sam-AVFC]

8 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Wacko Jacko had all the black features he was born with surgically altered. Always seems to get a free pass though. 

Not racist, just an odd choice. 

Does he?!

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, rjw63 said:

Wacko Jacko had all the black features he was born with surgically altered. Always seems to get a free pass though. 

Not racist, just an odd choice. 

Case in point. Despised his own handsome features and he wanted to look white. Actually, @foreveryoung,  the spectre of racism does hang over some of this. British colonial racism, American racism. Capitalist marketing just exploited it. 

Edited July 7, 2022 by maqroll

[lapal_fan]

A lot of this is body dysmorphia.  

Everyone wants what they can't have, and that desire is worse when that thing you want is in vogue. 

My son has insanely curly hair to the point I've had black people come up to me and ask if "he's got some black in him"  His hair is blonde and he's white. 

He absolutely hates his curly hair, whilst everyone else likes it. 

I've got wavy hair, as a kid always wanted straight hair, it is what it is. 

[Stevo985]

51 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Wacko Jacko had all the black features he was born with surgically altered. Always seems to get a free pass though. 

I mean, he doesn't does he?  

[Davkaus]

Always gets a free pass he says, while citing the commonly used insulting nickname that was coined based on the behaviour he gets said free pass on.