PaulC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: Exactly. The people booted him out of office at the first opportunity too didn't they? I still think defacing a monument to him is out of order though. Yes they kicked him out because they wanted change. Tired of all the lies and lack of jobs after the previous war. Still managed to win another election though. The world is a different place now, we cannot judge a man living in those times as we do judge people today. He was voted the greatest ever Britain. I'd consider Attlee as more of a hero to me though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I still think defacing a monument to him is out of order though. Thats prety much the same argument for keeping Confederate statues in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Stevo985 said: It’s weird isn’t it?! I mean you can’t be angry at brands and companies posting in favour of BLM. but at the same time companies do stuff for money. Literally all of them. There might be a slight minority that do stuff for the right reason... but even companies posting for stuff you agree with like BLM, you can almost guarantee they’re doing it because it will make them money in the long run. im rambling I think some see it as virtue signalling though. If companies really cared they wouldn't treat their staff like shit or have their products made in sweat shops in China or Bangladesh for example. Like you say some companies will be genuine and do things the right way but a lot will just see it as an opportunity to jump on a bandwagon. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, Xela said: I think some see it as virtue signalling though. You'll be calling them snowflakes next, you big ol' racist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 Just now, Davkaus said: You'll be calling them snowflakes next, you big ol' racist Its on my SJW bingo card! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 I actually hate the companies cashing in on zeitgeist stuff. It's taking something genuinely important and cynically using it for a marketing opportunity. It's **** grim. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chindie said: I actually hate the companies cashing in on zeitgeist stuff. It's taking something genuinely important and cynically using it for a marketing opportunity. It's **** grim. Yeah. I wonder if it is all marketing though. Some definitely is, but some seems like it’s done out of fear of “why haven’t you added your voice to this....”? being directed their way, and then whoppers on facebooks and twitters kicking up a storm about “Joe’s Pies refused to support BLM, they are racists” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 8 minutes ago, blandy said: Yeah. I wonder if it is all marketing though. Some definitely is, but some seems like it’s done out of fear of “why haven’t you added your voice to this....”? being directed their way, and then whoppers on facebooks and twitters kicking up a storm about “Joe’s Pies refused to support BLM, they are racists” Very possibly the case, especially after the Starbucks kerfuffle not supporting the war on terror years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 2 hours ago, PaulC said: The world is a different place now, we cannot judge a man living in those times as we do judge people today. This is nonsense. We absolutely must take in to account the times in which people lived when we judge them, so as they are not taken out of the context in which they existed, but to say that judging them is impossible because we don't live in those times is utterly daft - and it ignores the points made about judgements being made about peopple in the time that they existed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, snowychap said: This is nonsense. We absolutely must take in to account the times in which people lived when we judge them, so as they are not taken out of the context in which they existed, but to say that judging them is impossible because we don't live in those times is utterly daft - and it ignores the points made about judgements being made about peopple in the time that they existed. Look you have your opinions I have mine leave it at that. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 What an apsolutely desperate whopper this David Vance is! What kind of pathetic deflection and the poorest of poor attempts at character assasination is that! Of course the point is it will work on those that want it to work but as as is typical of the man, it's poory researched 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 This irritates me. Someone decided to compile a list of country music artists and their stance on the protests. Because someone hasn’t said anything on social media, it has the potential to be a witch-hunt. They call it an Accountability List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 I personally think Winston Churchill’s statue was vandalised by mindless thugs but I get how it can be seen a racially motivated. But can anyone explain to me why Abraham Lincoln’s statue was vandalised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 4 hours ago, bickster said: Thats prety much the same argument for keeping Confederate statues in the US. Unfortunately I never studied American history at school or college and rather shamefully never had the interest to study it in my own time since but I'd be surprised if anyone from the Confederate states had the positive impact on the world as Churchill did, but accept if people want to concentrate on his racism that is up to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 1 hour ago, sharkyvilla said: Unfortunately I never studied American history at school or college and rather shamefully never had the interest to study it in my own time since but I'd be surprised if anyone from the Confederate states had the positive impact on the world as Churchill did, but accept if people want to concentrate on his racism that is up to them. Are you aware of the 1943 Bengall Famine in which his policies had the effect of killing 2 to 3 million people? He even refused to send aid, afterhis policies of taking the rice for the "war effort" caused the famine in the first place. It's the only famine in recorded history, not caused by drought and the rice taken was stockpiled, not used to feed the troops. His rationale was that because the Indians "bred like Rabbits", any aid would be pointless. Effectively his policies caused a genocide of millions of people. That's but one of many examples of his racism. I just that one he caused the deaths of millions It really isn't as simple as he won the war but lets not focus on that 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 3 hours ago, PaulC said: Look you have your opinions I have mine leave it at that. Your opinion is nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 19 minutes ago, bickster said: Are you aware of the 1943 Bengall Famine in which his policies had the effect of killing 2 to 3 million people? He even refused to send aid, afterhis policies of taking the rice for the "war effort" caused the famine in the first place. It's the only famine in recorded history, not caused by drought and the rice taken was stockpiled, not used to feed the troops. His rationale was that because the Indians "bred like Rabbits", any aid would be pointless. Effectively his policies caused a genocide of millions of people. That's but one of many examples of his racism. I just that one he caused the deaths of millions It really isn't as simple as he won the war but lets not focus on that But what about the tidal waves that caused mass flooding and bad crop failure, hurricanes at the time of the famine which I note are not mentioned ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted June 7, 2020 Share Posted June 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: But what about the tidal waves that caused mass flooding and bad crop failure, hurricanes at the time of the famine which I note are not mentioned ? Very good point. Makes the stuff @bickster lists even more shocking in that context. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Follyfoot said: But what about the tidal waves that caused mass flooding and bad crop failure, hurricanes at the time of the famine which I note are not mentioned ? And still he didn't send aid, despite causing the lack of food in the first place but I suspect that wasn't the point you were trying to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 7, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted June 7, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: Very good point. Makes the stuff @bickster lists even more shocking in that context. We were in the middle of a world war and despite what you read I believe from my research nothing could be further from the truth in these accusations Edited June 7, 2020 by Follyfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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