Davkaus Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, KentVillan said: It seems like nowadays unless you're Ramos / VvD / Chiellini most football fans think every CB is a complete donkey. I don't remember it being like that back in the day - is it because they're more involved in the football, so they're not as strong defensively? Or their mistakes get highlighted more often? Or they get more exposed? I think even compared to 10-15 years ago, it's a "softer" sport, with more emphasis on playing the ball. Nobody expected Laursen or McGrath to be playing it out from the back. Edited August 9, 2022 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StuL Posted August 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2022 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roonst83 Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 Ty’s reputation has actually vastly improved since being dropped. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted August 9, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 9, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: I think even compared to 10-15 years ago, it's a "softer" sport, with more emphasis on playing the ball. Nobody expected Laursen or McGrath to be playing it out from the back. Yes, but also the role of full back has changed massively, meaning your back 4 is much more often a back 2 or a back 3 with a midfielder dropping in. I don't know, I just feel you look through all the PL teams, and almost all of them have a CB who is (or has been) widely regarded as useless. Whether it's Rudiger, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, Jones, Dier, Sanchez, Stones, White, Keane, etc they've all had periods where they've been slammed as clumsy donkeys who can't play football or can't defend, despite regularly starting for top Premier League sides. I'm not saying Mings is a top player, by any means, but the way people talk you'd think he's been stealing a living here, rather than being one of our key players for the last 3 seasons. The only defenders who avoid criticism are the world class VvD types or people like Tarkowski who have mainly played in defensive, physical sides that keep men back and sit fairly deep. Obviously any CB is going to look better in that kind of setup. It's just easier. I just wonder if people have realistic expectations of what we can get. Diego Carlos is a very good CB who is clearly weaker than Mings in the air. Chambers is much better on the ball, but not as good defensively. Konsa is a tidier defender, but more passive and not as good on the ball as people like to think. At our level you're never going to get the complete package, unless you get very lucky with a youth player. Those players are at the elite Champions League sides, and there's only a few of them in the whole world. So for a mid table side trying to play a bit of football (which I think we are!) you're going to have some issues with your CBs from time to time. It doesn't mean they're shit players, it just means a good manager needs to work around their strengths and weaknesses. Conte has done it with Dier, and Tuchel has done it with Rudiger. Edited August 9, 2022 by KentVillan 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted August 9, 2022 Share Posted August 9, 2022 59 minutes ago, roonst83 said: Ty’s reputation has actually vastly improved since being dropped. No, just different people are talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Doesn’t need to worry. Will outlast Gerrard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Delphinho123 Posted August 10, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 10, 2022 The defence wasn’t the major issue that needed sorting this Summer. It was the midfield. Adding Carlos is nice and you can always improve but Mings was part of a defence a couple of years back heralded as one of the best in the league. Until our manager/board/whoever realise that they need two better central midfielders to play alongside Kamara, we’ll never see much improvement. Creating this massive problem, both in a PR and playing sense, by taking the captaincy from Mings and giving it to McGinn was absolutely f****** mental. I’m trying to back Gerrard as much as I can but that decision alone defies believe and only an absolute moron would publicly call out one of your better/popular players, strip him of the captaincy and give it to a bloke who shouldn’t even be starting. Even as I type it, it beggars belief. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icarium Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Thug said: Doesn’t need to worry. Will outlast Gerrard. This I just hope Mings has the patience to wait him out before wanting out 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 He’s being linked to West Ham. Not particularly reliably. I could see him moving on. What a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HalfTimePost Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Nails it 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I must say I listened to Gerrard's interview where he talked about Mings looking him in the eye, and thought it could be interpreted in different ways, he said it in the context of talking about Mings' injury, so he could have easily meant that he wanted Mings to look him in the eye and be honest about being ready to play or not, in terms of fitness, as some players of course will say they feel ready when they're not, which speaks wonders to their state and quality of being dedicated to the cause, but isn't always for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted August 10, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, useless said: I must say I listened to Gerrard's interview where he talked about Mings looking him in the eye, and thought it could be interpreted in different ways, he said it in the context of talking about Mings' injury, so he could have easily meant that he wanted Mings to look him in the eye and be honest about being ready to play or not, in terms of fitness, as some players of course will say they feel ready when they're not, which speaks wonders to their state and quality of being dedicated to the cause, but isn't always for the best. He's spoke about an injury and then also mentioned 'a niggle,' I think 'the niggle' probably means Ming's had a go at him and let's be honest I can't see there's is anyway Ming's wouldn't be pissed off and not say anything, it just would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, useless said: I must say I listened to Gerrard's interview where he talked about Mings looking him in the eye, and thought it could be interpreted in different ways, he said it in the context of talking about Mings' injury, so he could have easily meant that he wanted Mings to look him in the eye and be honest about being ready to play or not, in terms of fitness, as some players of course will say they feel ready when they're not, which speaks wonders to their state and quality of being dedicated to the cause, but isn't always for the best. If that’s the case then he really should be more careful with his words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I don't know, alls well that ends well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Just now, a m ole said: If that’s the case then he really should be more careful with his words. Who should? Mings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anything11 Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 Rumours were that Smith wanted to drop Mings from captaincy and only injuries stopped him. Mings is a great guy and on his day is fantastic but far too often he only looks good at last ditch tackles and hoofing the ball away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, a m ole said: If that’s the case then he really should be more careful with his words. Gerrard the so called media expert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 10 minutes ago, Anything11 said: Rumours were that Smith wanted to drop Mings from captaincy and only injuries stopped him. Mings is a great guy and on his day is fantastic but far too often he only looks good at last ditch tackles and hoofing the ball away. I don't think thats true, McGinn and Emi were fit when Mings/Smith had allegedly fallen out The only injuries I think at time were Sanson, Traore, Buendia and Bailey and not sure would have given them the captaincy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 I still think Mings / Carlos is the right combination. Especially as Carlos adapts to the Premier League 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted August 10, 2022 Share Posted August 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: I don't think thats true, McGinn and Emi were fit when Mings/Smith had allegedly fallen out The only injuries I think at time were Sanson, Traore, Buendia and Bailey and not sure would have given them the captaincy Traore as captain could have been pretty great though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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