Racism in Football

[a-k]

So, singing about someone's ancestral ethnicity is not OK, but it's OK for people to say Enzo looks like a lesbian?

[spiezels]

5 hours ago, _AA_786 said:

Didn't realise Emi was potentially involved with the Enzo video and have been catching up on the last x number of pages. There still doesn't seem to be conclusive evidence either way? Just hope he wasn't as some of the tweets suggest but it's great to see the forum is both collectively disappointed by this and would expect some kind of statement rather than sweeping it under the rug

My 2p worth is that the stupidity/racism that created this song (not a historical song where time can mean its more ignorance) and chose to sing it in 2024, is unfortunately still rife in countries all over the world. In some places it's just more overt then in others. A recent(ish) Villa example....

• Was taking the missus to the Stevenage FA Cup game at VP last year
• On the train into Aston and was near 3 chaps (20s-30s)
• Get off and beginning walking up Grosvenor Road
• The 3 chaps are now in front of us and are chatting away about the game when one sees an Asian guy with his 2 kids (both between 6 and 12)
• He then says "See you let one **** in and they breed and bring the rest in" - the other 2 find this funny and laugh away

There was no motivation, no historical context or anything. He simply chose to make a racist and unnecessary comment.

The more these individuals are highlighted, the more you hope (as unlikely as it is) that others will see the outcry and reassess their views.

 

*Enzo has now put out an apology statement

So **** isnt it. When people get upset about players taking the knee i wish they’d bother to actually go ask someone about their experiences different to their own.

Mate of mine, 2nd gen Pakistani stopped coming england games with us after nations league 2018 time post world cup as he was fed up with under the breath racist remarks to him from other england fans especially after we’d lose. 

He never once mentioned it too us when it happened as it was “normal” we were all so gutted when he finally told us. Absolutely disgusting not only that it happens but that he just felt like he had to crack on.

Once you start to peel back the layers and are lucky enough to have someone who is open to talking to you about it you see how bad it still is. 
 

Theres words removed about and unfortunately alot of them are at football.

[_AA_786]

10 hours ago, spiezels said:

So **** isnt it. When people get upset about players taking the knee i wish they’d bother to actually go ask someone about their experiences different to their own.

Mate of mine, 2nd gen Pakistani stopped coming england games with us after nations league 2018 time post world cup as he was fed up with under the breath racist remarks to him from other england fans especially after we’d lose. 

He never once mentioned it too us when it happened as it was “normal” we were all so gutted when he finally told us. Absolutely disgusting not only that it happens but that he just felt like he had to crack on.

Once you start to peel back the layers and are lucky enough to have someone who is open to talking to you about it you see how bad it still is. 
 

Theres words removed about and unfortunately alot of them are at football.

Fair play to your mate for showing restraint (it is the right thing to do) and it's a shame he's chosen to stay away from games but I respect if he feels that's for the best. I've never been to an England game but am told some of the fans there can be even more neanderthal-like

Unfortunately I reacted and then got a telling off during most of the match before watching Dendonker get sent off and us lose. So all in all a **** day!

[Zatman]

Argentine PM has apparently come out saying players have only spoken the truth

Enzo has caused an international crisis with his stupidity

[Keyblade]

19 hours ago, a-k said:

So, singing about someone's ancestral ethnicity is not OK, but it's OK for people to say Enzo looks like a lesbian?

I wouldn't say it's okay, but they're not remotely similar. One is a targeted comment (joke?) about 1 person's look/style. The other has a wider implication that black people can never be French/[insert country here]. 

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Argentine PM has apparently come out saying players have only spoken the truth

Enzo has caused an international crisis with his stupidity

He’s a right wing  lunatic though, isn’t he?

[The_Steve]

Good to see pressure is mounting on the Argentinians responsible. 

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

He’s a right wing  lunatic though, isn’t he?

Tim Vickery covers it excellently as usual:

Enzo Fernandez: Alleged racist Argentina chant 'stained glory' of Copa America win - BBC Sport

Quote

One of the attractions of national team duty for these players is the chance to be together with people from their own culture, and sing their own songs.

It is a chance for them to be aggressively and assertively Argentine.

Many aspects of the country's fan culture are wonderful. The songs can be hypnotic.

But the lyrics to this particular song, which grew out of the Qatar World Cup final, which Argentina won on penalties against France, are extremely disturbing.

 

[MrBlack]

So we know Emi was on the bus from a different video on the same night.  But there isn't a video of him singing the racist song.

I would be amazed if he wasn't singing it, but if there's no evidence then we may never know. 

Feel like he should definitely have come out and issued a statement condemning the actions, but the fact he hasn't suggests to me he was singing and is just waiting to see if any other video evidence emerges before making a comment.

Sweeping it under the carpet as if it didn't happen and he wasn't there is shit on both Villa and Emi's part.

[Zatman]

30 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

So we know Emi was on the bus from a different video on the same night.  But there isn't a video of him singing the racist song.

I would be amazed if he wasn't singing it, but if there's no evidence then we may never know. 

Feel like he should definitely have come out and issued a statement condemning the actions, but the fact he hasn't suggests to me he was singing and is just waiting to see if any other video evidence emerges before making a comment.

Sweeping it under the carpet as if it didn't happen and he wasn't there is shit on both Villa and Emi's part.

According to something I saw it was only two players singing it or two players recorded singing it

Not sure what the club has to do with it. They cant do an investigation as to what happened and Emi is not due back at the club for about 2 weeks 

Edited July 18 by Zatman

[Zatman]

Alexis McAllister who was apparently not on the bus has blamed European sensitivity and not Argentinian culture as to why this is overblown

[colhint]

Hang on a minute. By what standards do you expect people to live by. Neither you or I or any of us really have had the high that Emi has been through. wasnt it Ozzy who said after  a major gig, we'd go and get wasted. People do stupid things in those moments. We've never experienced it. I've known people not look when penalties are taken. Is that logical? No it isnt. I've known people on VT wear the same clothes, or do the same routines, when match day comes. They wouldn't do it for a friendly, would they. You watch the after match thread after a win compared to after a defeat. They rarely end with the same number of pages. After a win by the time I've keyed in a post I might be on page three but by the time I post I'll be on page seven. This is the natural high. It's adrenalin. Our adrenalin is nowhere near the same as an elite athlete.

Now to put it in perspective. I abhor racism. I really do and have worked against it in far more practical ways than just posting on social media. But I am pragmatic. I've seen Emi take the knee numerous times I've seen him pose for photos with people of all co!ours. I've never heard one racist complaint against him before this week. 

I've worked outside UK as much as I've worked in it. There ain't many places who would see Emi or villa as racist.

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, colhint said:

Hang on a minute. By what standards do you expect people to live by. Neither you or I or any of us really have had the high that Emi has been through. wasnt it Ozzy who said after  a major gig, we'd go and get wasted. People do stupid things in those moments. We've never experienced it. I've known people not look when penalties are taken. Is that logical? No it isnt. I've known people on VT wear the same clothes, or do the same routines, when match day comes. They wouldn't do it for a friendly, would they. You watch the after match thread after a win compared to after a defeat. They rarely end with the same number of pages. After a win by the time I've keyed in a post I might be on page three but by the time I post I'll be on page seven. This is the natural high. It's adrenalin. Our adrenalin is nowhere near the same as an elite athlete.

Now to put it in perspective. I abhor racism. I really do and have worked against it in far more practical ways than just posting on social media. But I am pragmatic. I've seen Emi take the knee numerous times I've seen him pose for photos with people of all co!ours. I've never heard one racist complaint against him before this week. 

I've worked outside UK as much as I've worked in it. There ain't many places who would see Emi or villa as racist.

Assuming he was singing the song for the sake of argument, evidence of him doing something racist (ie: singing racist song) even if it was the solitary occasion, far outweighs the lack of evidence of the opposite. So you've never heard a racist complaint against him, that doesn't mean anything to be frank.

Also what does it say that a rush of adrenaline leads one to be racist? Not that I buy this reasoning, because they had to have memorized the song beforehand, presumably in a less adrenaline-fueled situation. The reality of the situation is likely that they simply found the song to be amusing.

[The_Rev]

39 minutes ago, colhint said:

Hang on a minute. By what standards do you expect people to live by.

Maybe ones where they don’t broadcast themselves chanting racist songs to their 11m followers, or is that too much to ask? 

[colhint]

Which according to the original post neither Emi or Aston Villa did so how does that make then shits.i

[Davkaus]

I can sympathise with the euphoria arguement. I've never won an international tournament, so I can't imagine what it'd make me do, but the last time I got a promotion I was goose stepping across the office for hours

[a-k]

8 hours ago, MrBlack said:

So we know Emi was on the bus from a different video on the same night.  But there isn't a video of him singing the racist song.

I would be amazed if he wasn't singing it, but if there's no evidence then we may never know. 

Feel like he should definitely have come out and issued a statement condemning the actions, but the fact he hasn't suggests to me he was singing and is just waiting to see if any other video evidence emerges before making a comment.

Sweeping it under the carpet as if it didn't happen and he wasn't there is shit on both Villa and Emi's part.

Ah yes, minimal (if any) evidence to suggest he was singing but I guess nowadays its "guilty before proven innocent"

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, a-k said:

Ah yes, minimal (if any) evidence to suggest he was singing but I guess nowadays its "guilty before proven innocent"

I'm not saying he's guilty, just that he's not doing anything to make himself look innocent, or set a higher standard of principles.  I'm saying he could easily come out and make a statement distancing himself from what was being sung, criticising it, and not following the line of McAllister and the Argentinan President who seem to be excusing or playing down racism.

His silence on the matter is questionable, although he's far from the only player on the bus that hasn't said anything so maybe I'm expecting too much of him. 

Edited July 19 by MrBlack

[Mic09]

43 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

I'm not saying he's guilty, just that he's not doing anything to make himself look innocent, or set a higher standard of principles.  I'm saying he could easily come out and make a statement distancing himself from what was being sung, criticising it, and not following the line of McAllister and the Argentinan President who seem to be excusing or playing down racism.

His silence on the matter is questionable, although he's far from the only player on the bus that hasn't said anything so maybe I'm expecting too much of him. 

I know, I am waiting for the physio's team statement, a bus driver statement, and a statement from the lady at the petrol station who saw them drive by.

There is no stick to hit Emi with for now. Why worry? If your mate at work does something stupid, do you expect for him to face the consequences or do you step up to explain yourself even if you had nothing to do with it? 

[MrBlack]

8 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

I know, I am waiting for the physio's team statement, a bus driver statement, and a statement from the lady at the petrol station who saw them drive by.

There is no stick to hit Emi with for now. Why worry? If your mate at work does something stupid, do you expect for him to face the consequences or do you step up to explain yourself even if you had nothing to do with it? 

Something as big as racism in football, viewed by millions on the Internet, is just like your mate at work telling an inappropriate joke on your lunch break sure. And if someone overheard that joke and was offended I would expect them to raise it with HR anyway.

It's not about explaining himself, it's about being a leader. If Messi wasn't on the bus,  and Emi was' he's the next most senior leader of the team. No one knows who the physio is, or or bus driver.  Everyone knows Emi Martinez. Most people know he was on the bus. Sets a great example for him to say something about it, rather than ignoring it. But like I said, there were other senior players on the bus that have also said nothing (although none as recognisable as Emi). You've got MacAllister who wasn't even there saying something stupid, so Emi could set the right tone. Given Alexis' comments though I'd guess he'd be alienating himself from the rest of the squad.