Dean Smith

[briny_ear]

4 hours ago, HKP90 said:

We have 30 odd games left to play. You don't think other teams will have bad patches during the season? 

Missed the point I fear.

 

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit.

The past exists only in our memories, the future only in our plans. The present is our only reality.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think he does to be fair.

As i've said, pretty much every fan likes Dean Smith the man, and appreciate everything he has done.

Everybody's ideal scenario would probably be that he comes blazing back.

However, you put the sentiment aside and, if this was Steve Bruce or any other manager, what do you think the fans would be like right now?

I would suggest, it's not " toxic " YET, because it's Dean Smith.

He has certainly used up a large portion of this " credit " though and is probably down to a few shillings.

Well Steve Bruce wouldn't have built up the credit though, that's the difference. It's not that he's nice guy Dean Smith, it's because he got us promoted, had us playing the best football we've seen at VP for 2 decades, kept us in the PL, finished with our highest points tally in a decade, developed our players to the point where we sold one of them for 100m etc etc.

He's only down to a few shillings because fans are reactionary. There's no way that a bad run of results is enough to wipe out the massive strides we've made under him. We'd need to be in genuine danger of relegation before that even happens. But that's football, you're only as good as your last run of results (for the reverse, see: Graham Potter).

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

The past exists only in our memories, the future only in our plans. The present is our only reality.

Sounds like a mantra for tunnel vision.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Sounds like a mantra for tunnel vision.

And keeping a manager that was successful in the past but is potentially dragging us into a relegation scrap isn't tunnel vision

[briny_ear]

53 minutes ago, Tayls said:

I don’t think anybody actually wants him to leave, they just feel that he has taken us as far as he can. 

You have to admit that he has been saved on more than one occasion by having one of the best players in the world (possibly) available to him. Now that has gone, we are starting to really struggle. The fact that figuring out our identity since that change happened has been such a struggle, tells me that he probably didn’t have the dressing room and the players completely on board and everything went through Jack. 

The last four games have produced some of the worst football I have seen, and for us to play like that having had the same manager for three years, is awful. Teams have bad runs of results, but playing like we have recently? No chance that it is just bad luck… 

There are many things going on behind the scenes that we don’t know about. And I think we are far from being rosey. For me, it’s starting at the top… 

Reminds me a bit of Vic Crowe. Did a great job getting us out of the third division but then was sacked after only getting mid table in the second division. We all loved him for what he had achieved (and it was massive for the club in those days) but we knew it was time to move on.

[AvfcRigo82]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit.

Maybe it doesn't, but it could be enough to get him the sack.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Maybe it doesn't, but it could be enough to get him the sack.

That I agree with.

[Keyblade]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

And keeping a manager that was successful in the past but is potentially dragging us into a relegation scrap isn't tunnel vision

Potentially doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I thought you didn't look into the future  

[briny_ear]

11 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit.

Look at his record without Jack Grealish in the side and you will see it is far more than 5 matches (not sure which 5 you are referring to BTW).

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

17 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit.

I think the notion that people who are concerned, are only taking " 5 results " in isolation as reasoning, is a bit of a disservice if i'm honest.

It will have been compounded by trends which some people have been concerned about for quite some time, YES, even when we were doing better.

Those concerns/trends are now presenting themselves with a combo of performances and results.

It's obviously easier to paper over the cracks when results are better.

Edited November 1, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[picicata]

17 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

The only way he's in the red there is with some creative accounting, because no way does 5 bad results outweigh the rest of his credit.

You must agree though, over the whole of 2021 when we've played sans Grealish, it's been a lot more than 5 bad results.

He needs to find a way to play without out Grealish and quickly or we will be in the relegation zone very soon.

[AvfcRigo82]

20 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Well Steve Bruce wouldn't have built up the credit though, that's the difference. It's not that he's nice guy Dean Smith, it's because he got us promoted, had us playing the best football we've seen at VP for 2 decades, kept us in the PL, finished with our highest points tally in a decade, developed our players to the point where we sold one of them for 100m etc etc.

That's all very true and he will always be remembered for it, no question.

However, can he take us to the next level of where we want to be? Sadly, I don't think he can.

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, picicata said:

You must agree though, over the whole of 2021 when we've played sans Grealish, it's been a lot more than 5 bad results.

He needs to find a way to play without out Grealish and quickly or we will be in the relegation zone very soon.

We were bad even with Grealish, start of 2021 after the covid outbreak. We even lost 3-1 at home to West Ham in that time with Grealish on the pitch, funnily enough.

Grealish is one variable among many, an admittedly very important one but I don't subscribe to the idea that everything we've achieved under him was because of Grealish because for one, Grealish was here before Smith and we couldn't get out of that league, but also because it ignores the fact that he got that form out of Grealish in the first place. 

[mikeyjavfc]

The short term results are bad but I’d prefer if we made our managerial decisions based on the longer term vision. Do the upper management see Dean being our manager for next 5 years (assuming he weathers this storm), or do they plan to make a change at some point anyway? Do they have a profile of the type of manager they want and is anyone attainable who fits the bill? I really don’t see the point of sacking Dean just to bring in a mercenary manager - the season is far from gone. I hope we don’t sack Smith full stop but if we do I hope it’s used as a chance to progress and not just a salvage job. God forbid if there’s no plan for life after Smith then I’d much rather muddle through till summer and accept a lost year and then make a change, similar to Wolves last year.

[Peter Griffin]

2 minutes ago, mikeyjavfc said:

The short term results are bad but I’d prefer if we made our managerial decisions based on the longer term vision. Do the upper management see Dean being our manager for next 5 years (assuming he weathers this storm), or do they plan to make a change at some point anyway? Do they have a profile of the type of manager they want and is anyone attainable who fits the bill? I really don’t see the point of sacking Dean just to bring in a mercenary manager - the season is far from gone. I hope we don’t sack Smith full stop but if we do I hope it’s used as a chance to progress and not just a salvage job. God forbid if there’s no plan for life after Smith then I’d much rather muddle through till summer and accept a lost year and then make a change, similar to Wolves last year.

I think someone has posted that Dean has 7 wins in the last 29 (maybe 25) games. Is that not long term and is that not a bad return?

[PieFacE]

I'm on the fence whether I think he should go or not. I hope he turns it around, but I'm not sure he will be given the time to do it. 

I've always had a niggling feeling that Smith was never really a big enough name for NSWE, but we shall see.

[briny_ear]

9 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

We were bad even with Grealish, start of 2021 after the covid outbreak. We even lost 3-1 at home to West Ham in that time with Grealish on the pitch, funnily enough.

Grealish is one variable among many, an admittedly very important one but I don't subscribe to the idea that everything we've achieved under him was because of Grealish because for one, Grealish was here before Smith and we couldn't get out of that league, but also because it ignores the fact that he got that form out of Grealish in the first place. 

No-one is denying he got the form out of Grealish (although you probably should look at what Jack says about the epiphany he had when he was so ill with his kidneys, and the change that brought to his whole attitude to football). The problem is he hasn’t been able to get much out of the side in Jack’’s absence. And cherry picking one or two bad performances when Jack was playing doesn’t change that basic truth.

[YLN]

Calling for Smith to be sacked seems so premature. 

I supported Lambert far too long, but this isn't that. 

4 games ago we beat Utd. 5 games ago we beat Everton 3-0.

Calling for his head 4 games later is very reactionary and, to be frank, i haven't experienced this sort of dramatic turn on a manager in such a short spell ever before. It's quite strange really

[a m ole]

29 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I think DC has probably taken a hiatus from posting, as he knew what it might be like on here.

I've got a feeling he indeed is watching the thread though, and looking at us all in disgust right now haha

I logged out a week ago because it was **** miserable reading the circlejerk of doom-mongery and over-analysis. Checked today and it appears it’s been non stop since. Even if we win the next 5 games in a row and I won’t be back for a while. Maybe I’ll start posting again when we get rid of the completely useless stealing a career Dean Smith, Austin MacPhee, Craig Shakespeare, Christian Purslow, Arron Banks, Tyrone Mings, John McGinn, Emi Buendia, Matt Targett, the no longer interested NSWE and whoever else’s fault it all is.

Edited November 1, 2021 by a m ole