barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, DCJonah said: You mention Leeds having a style of play. Do you not think having multiple years with the same squad helps build that? At this current time, Smith has completed one full season with Aston Villa. He's had one proper pre-season with the club. Bielsa came to Leeds in June 2018. Smith came to us in October 2018. I'm not sure what your point is???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 10 minutes ago, DCJonah said: You mention Leeds having a style of play. Do you not think having multiple years with the same squad helps build that? At this current time, Smith has completed one full season with Aston Villa. He's had one proper pre-season with the club. This point is underrated, it's telling that the only managers ever compared to Smith are ones that have had years moulding their squads to be at a similar level as us. Last season it was Wilder, this year it's Bielsa Smith has had to oversee an enormous turnover of players and squad in a really short period of time, and despite this has generated a fantastic team spirit and seen us steadily improve since he first walked through the door. He's not perfect, and there's areas that can improve for sure, but anyone that isn't happy with Dean Smith as Aston Villa manager needs to have a long think about where we were before him 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 I would guess that those who think we don't have a playing style are also those that want to see Ollie shipped out to the wing and Abraham brought in up top... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 17, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 hour ago, TRO said: Some of these players create marvellous moments in a game and Traore is no exception on form he is dynamite......but when a player is a clear detriment,to the team, the earlier the decision the better.He was never going to play his way in to that game Good post, but this bit, he had to consider how long could Jack play for. Bring him on too soon, he picks up an injury and is out of the Euros. He’s not fully match fit and probably 25 - 30 minutes was the max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, weedman said: This point is underrated, it's telling that the only managers ever compared to Smith are ones that have had years moulding their squads to be at a similar level as us. Last season it was Wilder, this year it's Bielsa Smith has had to oversee an enormous turnover of players and squad in a really short period of time, and despite this has generated a fantastic team spirit and seen us steadily improve since he first walked through the door. He's not perfect, and there's areas that can improve for sure, but anyone that isn't happy with Dean Smith as Aston Villa manager needs to have a long think about where we were before him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, barry'sboots said: Bielsa came to Leeds in June 2018. Smith came to us in October 2018. I'm not sure what your point is???? So he's had more pre seasons and hasn't had to completely rebuild the squad he's worked with when promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 12 minutes ago, weedman said: This point is underrated, it's telling that the only managers ever compared to Smith are ones that have had years moulding their squads to be at a similar level as us. Last season it was Wilder, this year it's Bielsa Smith has had to oversee an enormous turnover of players and squad in a really short period of time, and despite this has generated a fantastic team spirit and seen us steadily improve since he first walked through the door. He's not perfect, and there's areas that can improve for sure, but anyone that isn't happy with Dean Smith as Aston Villa manager needs to have a long think about where we were before him It will be the same next year. Pick a manager of a team doing well to criticise our own. Its a very strange thing. Bamford has scored more goals than Watkins but we'd never use that to criticise Ollie. It's weird how people have to find and cling onto something in order to justify the criticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, villa4europe said: You could argue that we have a top 6 back 5 and an England striker because of Smith... If he can do to the midfield what he did to the defence then we will be OK, if he can then do it to the attack as well then we could be a bit good The main thing is that after he improved the defence its then harsh to suggest that he can't improve the other areas As for another comment that it's Leeds first season etc, it's all irrelevant, the playing field is levelled every summer, it being their 2nd season and it being our 3rd next year has no significance, smiths 1st season and Bielsas 1st season are not in competition with each other, neither will their 2nd year, or 3rd, 4th blah blah blah it doesn't work that way I do not get why Leeds are some sort of benchmark. Especially when similar posters were making similar points about sheff utd last season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: I would guess that those who think we don't have a playing style are also those that want to see Ollie shipped out to the wing and Abraham brought in up top... Absolutely not. I am one that is not sure we have a playing style and I definitely wouldn't want to see Ollie shifted anywhere, although I wouldn't be averse to seeing him play with a partner in a 4-4(diamond)-2 or a 3-5-2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, barry'sboots said: Absolutely not. I am one that is not sure we have a playing style and I definitely wouldn't want to see Ollie shifted anywhere, although I wouldn't be averse to seeing him play with a partner in a 4-4(diamond)-2 or a 3-5-2! I think we have a style. We have a clear formation. We try to play out from the back at times but also will hit the channels and use Watkins pace. We are happy to defend crosses into the box, with both full backs coming narrow at times. We have inverted wingers and overlapping full backs. I'd say we're pretty consistent in our approach, we just aren't consistent in how successful we produce it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 19 minutes ago, villa4europe said: You could argue that we have a top 6 back 5 and an England striker because of Smith... If he can do to the midfield what he did to the defence then we will be OK, if he can then do it to the attack as well then we could be a bit good The main thing is that after he improved the defence its then harsh to suggest that he can't improve the other areas As for another comment that it's Leeds first season etc, it's all irrelevant, the playing field is levelled every summer, it being their 2nd season and it being our 3rd next year has no significance, smiths 1st season and Bielsas 1st season are not in competition with each other, neither will their 2nd year, or 3rd, 4th blah blah blah it doesn't work that way You could well argue that, and I haven't said that you could not?? I genuinely hope that he can get the midfield and attack to the same level as the back 5 as a top 6 back 5 combined with a top 6 midfield and top 6 attack should make you a top 6 side (assuming your bench is okay!)!! As for the Leeds point, I am not sure that you read the post that I was responding to as it was about momentum and not what season teams were in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Just now, DCJonah said: I think we have a style. We have a clear formation. We try to play out from the back at times but also will hit the channels and use Watkins pace. We are happy to defend crosses into the box, with both full backs coming narrow at times. We have inverted wingers and overlapping full backs. I'd say we're pretty consistent in our approach, we just aren't consistent in how successful we produce it. You missed off we press high via Ollie which is why I said about him being moved wide which doesn't make sense, its an underrated part of why our defence has improved and we were at one stage the only team in the league to increase our pressing from the year before Unfortunately we couldn't keep it going all season It'll be an underrated aspect of any new winger we bring in too, traore obviously isn't hot at it but trez to be fair to him can do it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, villa4europe said: You missed off we press high via Ollie which is why I said about him being moved wide which doesn't make sense, its an underrated part of why our defence has improved and we were at one stage the only team in the league to increase our pressing from the year before Unfortunately we couldn't keep it going all season It'll be an underrated aspect of any new winger we bring in too, traore obviously isn't hot at it but trez to be fair to him can do it Yes very true. You see the difference when Davis played or when we had Wes last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think we have a style. We have a clear formation. We try to play out from the back at times but also will hit the channels and use Watkins pace. We are happy to defend crosses into the box, with both full backs coming narrow at times. We have inverted wingers and overlapping full backs. I'd say we're pretty consistent in our approach, we just aren't consistent in how successful we produce it. And what does our midfield do??? Luiz, SJM and Barkley looked so good pre-Barkley's injury BUT they all look pretty poor now (certainly Barkley and, at best, Luiz and SJM are inconsistent). I just can't understand how our midfield has gone from being so good to so bad in the same system with no apparent way of shaking them out of that malaise. Neither Sanson (when he was fit) or Nakamba or Ramsey seem to have anything more than a fleeting positive impact when they join in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: traore obviously isn't hot at it but trez to be fair to him can do it Combine the two and you would have a potential Balon d'Or contender!! Assuming, that is, that you kept only their best bits in that combined version! Edited May 17, 2021 by barry'sboots 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 The thing that has recently made me change my opinion of Smith is the fact that the players don’t seem to know what they are supposed to do. That was more obvious yesterday than on any other occasion this season. It actually became worse after Jack came on. His presence just seemed to confuse matters further. I really hope that Smith can do something in these last two games to alter my perception. I don’t expect any points from the two matches but I do expect a clear plan, executed by the players, that at least makes it difficult for the opposition whilst offering some kind, no matter how infrequent, of forward threat. If they perform like that in the last two games, regardless of the result, then he will win back some favour with me. More shambolic performances like yesterday I seriously think he will come under pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 1 minute ago, barry'sboots said: Combine the two and you would have a potential Balon d'Or contender!! Assuming, that is, that you kept only their best bits in that combined version! You're not wrong, traores skillset with trezs application and then pray for the consistency balancing itself out... Throw in el ghazi too with his directness and willingness to sniff out a goal and take a shot on Between them we have a good player, separately they're infuriating 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 Just now, villa4europe said: You're not wrong, traores skillset with trezs application and then pray for the consistency balancing itself out... Throw in el ghazi too with his directness and willingness to sniff out a goal and take a shot on Between them we have a good player, separately they're infuriating What is frustrating about any professional footballer is that they don't have the application to get stuck in/defend/run. You can almost forgive Trez's lack of ability (most of us will apprecaite what that is like on a football field) but to not put a 100% maximum effort in - I just don't get that. I know it has been said a million times before with the likes of Ozil etc.. Having said that, of the three Traore is the one that I would keep, although constantly challenge him to work harder, as he does have the skill set to unlock defences and I am hoping that he has a Konsa-like upward trend in his second year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 18 minutes ago, barry'sboots said: And what does our midfield do??? Luiz, SJM and Barkley looked so good pre-Barkley's injury BUT they all look pretty poor now (certainly Barkley and, at best, Luiz and SJM are inconsistent). I just can't understand how our midfield has gone from being so good to so bad in the same system with no apparent way of shaking them out of that malaise. Neither Sanson (when he was fit) or Nakamba or Ramsey seem to have anything more than a fleeting positive impact when they join in. I think it highlights our lack of depth at the moment. Sanson is new to the league. Ramsay doesn't look at the level yet and regardless of a few appearances I don't think Nakamba is a premier league player. And Barkley, for many reasons, looks done as a good Premier league player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 17, 2021 Share Posted May 17, 2021 2 hours ago, barry'sboots said: I think the big concern for most on here (on the one side that is) is the shocking run of form since our COVID break and the inability to turn this around/find some spark that ignites a recovery. We have all seen the impact that Sheff Utd's poor run of form from Project Restart had on this season. Equally, West Ham managed to move in the opposite direction I suppose. I find it bizarre that even the most avid Smith fan cannot recognise that this is a topic worthy of debate/questioning/understanding? I am really not sure what the purpose of a discussion forum is if a topic as obvious as this cannot be discussed openly without some people jumping down your throat for daring to question Smith's ability. Most I have read, and I include myself in this, like the man - he is a Villan and is very affable - but remain unconvinced by certain elements. And again, most, including myself, recognise that he has done a good job, although not, in my view, as miraculous as some might state. He has had plenty of support from the owners and he has the benefit of inheriting Grealish, although I do accept that there are counter points aswell. Bielsa, for example, who has been ridiculed by many Villans at times, has, I feel, outperformed Smith by finishing ahead of us in Leeds' first season back in the PL - I accept that they are a more settled team but I think that he has pulled good performances out of some Championship players and their team has progressed over the season and addressed defensive issues etc. and also coped better than us with various injuries, whereas we have gone in the opposite direction - we looked like world beaters up until Christmas but now look like relegation fodder! It is really difficult to judge where we are at the minute. Again, there are obvious factors, including Jack's absence (although we did not look great in his last couple of games before he stopped playing), that may have contributed to this but it hard to reconcile the Villa of 2020 with the current team and I'm not sure Smith is able to either. I see some speculation that we are going to receive a really big transfer kitty in the summer and I guess the question, certainly for me, is whether Smith is the right man to be given this budget. It might be that it is more Lange's call on transfers/squad shape (I'm not sure how our DoF/Manager recruitment bit works) but Smith must have a significant input. My concern with Smith is that, if we are spending big money, I would hope that the resultant squad is able to give us options to play football in different ways given different opposition and circumstances but I am not sure I have ever seen that tactical variation/flexibility in Smith. As I've said before, I hope that he demonstrates that he can and that he can mix it with the big boys but I am not convinced at this stage. I hope he strengthens the Middle of Midfield Baz.....We rely on so much down the flanks, it becomes predictable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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