Dean Smith

[Jas10]

23 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

They can. My mate that supports Leeds thinks they will finish top 4 next season. 
 

But then I bet Sheffield United fans expected another mid table finish. 

[GENTLEMAN]

5 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

With the benefit of our collective 'support', I wonder why?

I think we all wish he was a little more forthcoming with subs, but that's just how he is. He trusts players, rightly or wrongly to adjust and get us out of sh*t when we are in it. Maybe we don't have the right players yet? Maybe our bench is lacking in quality and/or experience? 

I strongly disagree that the reaction of fans on social media affects Smith's decisions either way. In fact, the in-ground 'support' has been absent due to COVID and it's return may actually serve to encourage more action from Smith.

This goes beyond the timing of substitutions. I am veering into speculation here. It almost feels oft times as if substitutions are pre-determined, that certain players are un-droppable and the system un-changeable. For instance, I firmly believe Nakamba could have been utilised more effectively this season. Of course this is theoretical, it cannot be proved or disproved. However, if I can follow the logic of a decision then I am happy with said decision. Times this season I have been left scratching my head not following the logic, comforting myself that Smith is privy to more information/data than me. This is both pre-game, with selections and in-game, tactical shifts and substitutions. 

Yes, I can appreciate the benefits (player trust) and the potential explanations (weak squad) as I mentioned in the post. However, I am not totally convinced. FWIW I actually rate Smith, for numerous reasons, and believe he has and is doing a 'good' job, but I am just steel-manning to probe that original belief. 

[TRO]

Just now, osmark86 said:

That never was my intention with the original reply and if you felt I attacked you in any way then I appologize.

Listen, I don't want you to apologize, I didn't see it that way.......you are by far and away from some posters, who an apology may be be nifty.

I say things, sometimes, that could be said better, but if I am picked up, I will respond....I am not Bill Shakespeare, I choose words that could be better, or instances that could be too....but I think I know my football.

If I am out of order, or say something to offend, I will yield.....I am not beyond accepting a reasoned different opinion.

I do find it strange though how mature posters struggle to have debate on Dean Smith, without references to wanting him out.....Those that make the derogatory remarks on twitter or other social media, should be given a wide berth...but not be confused with others who don't want him out, but have questions.

VT does offer an opportunity for us to present a balanced debate.

[dubbs]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

VT does offer an opportunity for us to present a balanced debate.

 

[GENTLEMAN]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

 

 

 

Is this right? Our annual wage bill at just over 60 million euros.

[GENTLEMAN]

1 minute ago, GENTLEMAN said:

Is this right? Our annual wage bill at just over 60 million euros.

 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, GENTLEMAN said:

I strongly disagree that the reaction of fans on social media affects Smith's decisions either way. In fact, the in-ground 'support' has been absent due to COVID and it's return may actually serve to encourage more action from Smith.

This goes beyond the timing of substitutions. I am veering into speculation here. It almost feels oft times as if substitutions are pre-determined, that certain players are un-droppable and the system un-changeable. For instance, I firmly believe Nakamba could have been utilised more effectively this season. Of course this is theoretical, it cannot be proved or disproved. However, if I can follow the logic of a decision then I am happy with said decision. Times this season I have been left scratching my head not following the logic, comforting myself that Smith is privy to more information/data than me. This is both pre-game, with selections and in-game, tactical shifts and substitutions. 

Yes, I can appreciate the benefits (player trust) and the potential explanations (weak squad) as I mentioned in the post. However, I am not totally convinced. FWIW I actually rate Smith, for numerous reasons, and believe he has and is doing a 'good' job, but I am just steel-manning to probe that original belief. 

I too have much to admire about Dean Smith and his presiding in his post with a Football club, which could have many ego's and aspirations to manage....Its a big job and Dean has clearly bought with him stability, not to be sniffed at....our incremental progression ( form aside) is precious and I am sure, we all want to preserve that.

However, watching the game, I was surprised Traore was left on as long as he was, because his contribution was low grade.....He gave the ball away like clockwork and his demeanor looked anything but, up for it....He was floundering against opponents with far more intent.

There can only be one manager and he has to rise or fall by his decisions, He will undoubtedly have more criteria to support those decisions than us, not to mention more football Nous and advisers to boot.

Some of these players create marvellous moments in a game and Traore is no exception on form he is dynamite......but when a player is a clear detriment,to the team, the earlier the decision the better.He was never going to play his way in to that game.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, dubbs said:

 

There's always an exception

[tom_avfc]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I too have much to admire about Dean Smith and his presiding in his post with a Football club, which could have many ego's and aspirations to manage....Its a big job and Dean has clearly bought with him stability, not to be sniffed at....our incremental progression ( form aside) is precious and I am sure, we all want to preserve that.

However, watching the game, I was surprised Traore was left on as long as he was, because his contribution was low grade.....He gave the ball away like clockwork and his demeanor looked anything but, up for it....He was floundering against opponents with far more intent.

There can only be one manager and he has to rise or fall by his decisions, He will undoubtedly have more criteria to support those decisions than us, not to mention more football Nous and advisers to boot.

Some of these players create marvellous moments in a game and Traore is no exception on form he is dynamite......but when a player is a clear detriment,to the team, the earlier the decision the better.He was never going to play his way in to that game.

I agree with this although I guess the question is whether there was actually anybody on the bench who could improve the team.

Given that the obvious sub was made with Grealish for Traore on 64 minutes at 2-1 up and we subsequently conceded two goals in 20 minutes to lose the game it’s a question worth asking.

The squad that we have doesn’t lend itself to many substitutions which will positively impact the game in my opinion.

[sharkyvilla]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

I too have much to admire about Dean Smith and his presiding in his post with a Football club, which could have many ego's and aspirations to manage....Its a big job and Dean has clearly bought with him stability, not to be sniffed at....our incremental progression ( form aside) is precious and I am sure, we all want to preserve that.

However, watching the game, I was surprised Traore was left on as long as he was, because his contribution was low grade.....He gave the ball away like clockwork and his demeanor looked anything but, up for it....He was floundering against opponents with far more intent.

There can only be one manager and he has to rise or fall by his decisions, He will undoubtedly have more criteria to support those decisions than us, not to mention more football Nous and advisers to boot.

Some of these players create marvellous moments in a game and Traore is no exception on form he is dynamite......but when a player is a clear detriment,to the team, the earlier the decision the better.He was never going to play his way in to that game.

We don't have any other wingers apart from an unfit Jack, do we?  Can't even try Elmo there as Cash is injured.  The kids played a couple of nights ago as well.

[barry'sboots]

I think the big concern for most on here (on the one side that is) is the shocking run of form since our COVID break and the inability to turn this around/find some spark that ignites a recovery.  We have all seen the impact that Sheff Utd's poor run of form from Project Restart had on this season.  Equally, West Ham managed to move in the opposite direction I suppose. 

I find it bizarre that even the most avid Smith fan cannot recognise that this is a topic worthy of debate/questioning/understanding?  I am really not sure what the purpose of a discussion forum is if a topic as obvious as this cannot be discussed openly without some people jumping down your throat for daring to question Smith's ability.  Most I have read, and I include myself in this, like the man - he is a Villan and is very affable - but remain unconvinced by certain elements.  And again, most, including myself, recognise that he has done a good job, although not, in my view, as miraculous as some might state.  He has had plenty of support from the owners and he has the benefit of inheriting Grealish, although I do accept that there are counter points aswell. 

Bielsa, for example, who has been ridiculed by many Villans at times, has, I feel, outperformed Smith by finishing ahead of us in Leeds' first season back in the PL - I accept that they are a more settled team but I think that he has pulled good performances out of some Championship players and their team has progressed over the season and addressed defensive issues etc. and also coped better than us with various injuries, whereas we have gone in the opposite direction - we looked like world beaters up until Christmas but now look like relegation fodder!  It is really difficult to judge where we are at the minute.  Again, there are obvious factors, including Jack's absence (although we did not look great in his last couple of games before he stopped playing), that may have contributed to this but it hard to reconcile the Villa of 2020 with the current team and I'm not sure Smith is able to either.

I see some speculation that we are going to receive a really big transfer kitty in the summer and I guess the question, certainly for me, is whether Smith is the right man to be given this budget.  It might be that it is more Lange's call on transfers/squad shape (I'm not sure how our DoF/Manager recruitment bit works) but Smith must have a significant input.  My concern with Smith is that, if we are spending big money, I would hope that the resultant squad is able to give us options to play football in different ways given different opposition and circumstances but I am not sure I have ever seen that tactical variation/flexibility in Smith.  As I've said before, I hope that he demonstrates that he can and that he can mix it with the big boys but I am not convinced at this stage.

Edited May 17, 2021 by barry'sboots

[barry'sboots]

1 hour ago, BOF said:

Leeds can say that after season 2. They've been stagnant for over a decade and got promoted thanks to recharging their batteries at the very time they usually lose their arses. They've done extremely well this season but they need to get past second season syndrome.  I fully expect that they will do so, but until they do, they are not on a steady upward trajectory. They've had a good season.

Sure, you have to keep doing it, but Leeds' performances have improved over the season.  They had a significant issue at the start of the season in that their defending was reckless and they conceded lots of goals.  They appear to have addressed this.  I think that they have also dealt with injuries to key players pretty well - an example being the game at VP when Shackleton came in for Phillips and performed really well.  I would say that their performances demonstrate improvement over the season and a positive momentum (or upwards trajectory).  They have also built an identity/much lauded style of play that I am not sure we have.

Whilst league position for us shows upwards progression, our performances in the second half of this season most definitely do not.  At the minute, minus the summer business (which we all hope will be as good as, if not better than, last summer's business), most neutrals/pundits would probably see us finishing bottom half next year and being relegation fodder without Jack - that, despite having a top 6 back 5 and potential England "9".  I don't think we will by the way.  I think, with the type of investment we will get this summer we will have a really good squad next season, I just remain unconvinced that Dean is the man to consistently get the best out of it, although I do see him here and I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong on this.

 

[barry'sboots]

28 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

We don't have any other wingers apart from an unfit Jack, do we?  Can't even try Elmo there as Cash is injured.  The kids played a couple of nights ago as well.

JPB didn't play the other night as he is over 18.  I haven't seen much of him but he carries a big reputation.  I can't see any him in giving a couple of run outs over the next couple of games - 11th will probably be our final position given the gap to Wolves and Palace and their run in and the gap to Leeds and their run in versus our run in!?

[obelixe_]

5 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Just did the calculation.

Our average Premier league finish is 10th.

We're 11th.

Get a **** grip. It's pathetic. 

In the space of just two full seasons, Dean Smith has taken us from bottom half of the championship and returned us to what we historically usually were in the Premier league. 

And it's not enough. 

For a fair and balanced discussion can you calculate our PL average net spend? Please feel free to use football inflation if you have to

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, obelixe_ said:

For a fair and balanced discussion can you calculate our PL average net spend? Please feel free to use football inflation if you have to

What does net spend prove?

 

[DCJonah]

20 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Sure, you have to keep doing it, but Leeds' performances have improved over the season.  They had a significant issue at the start of the season in that their defending was reckless and they conceded lots of goals.  They appear to have addressed this.  I think that they have also dealt with injuries to key players pretty well - an example being the game at VP when Shackleton came in for Phillips and performed really well.  I would say that their performances demonstrate improvement over the season and a positive momentum (or upwards trajectory).  They have also built an identity/much lauded style of play that I am not sure we have.

Whilst league position for us shows upwards progression, our performances in the second half of this season most definitely do not.  At the minute, minus the summer business (which we all hope will be as good as, if not better than, last summer's business), most neutrals/pundits would probably see us finishing bottom half next year and being relegation fodder without Jack - that, despite having a top 6 back 5 and potential England "9".  I don't think we will by the way.  I think, with the type of investment we will get this summer we will have a really good squad next season, I just remain unconvinced that Dean is the man to consistently get the best out of it, although I do see him here and I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong on this.

 

You mention Leeds having a style of play. Do you not think having multiple years with the same squad helps build that?

At this current time, Smith has completed one full season with Aston Villa. He's had one proper pre-season with the club. 

[Hobsons Choice]

1 hour ago, GENTLEMAN said:

I strongly disagree that the reaction of fans on social media affects Smith's decisions either way. In fact, the in-ground 'support' has been absent due to COVID and it's return may actually serve to encourage more action from Smith.

This goes beyond the timing of substitutions. I am veering into speculation here. It almost feels oft times as if substitutions are pre-determined, that certain players are un-droppable and the system un-changeable. For instance, I firmly believe Nakamba could have been utilised more effectively this season. Of course this is theoretical, it cannot be proved or disproved. However, if I can follow the logic of a decision then I am happy with said decision. Times this season I have been left scratching my head not following the logic, comforting myself that Smith is privy to more information/data than me. This is both pre-game, with selections and in-game, tactical shifts and substitutions. 

Yes, I can appreciate the benefits (player trust) and the potential explanations (weak squad) as I mentioned in the post. However, I am not totally convinced. FWIW I actually rate Smith, for numerous reasons, and believe he has and is doing a 'good' job, but I am just steel-manning to probe that original belief. 

The trouble with that argument- that providing you find logic in decisions then you are happy with them- is that you neither have the experience/training of a top class coach, nor do you see the players on a daily basis, only the ones you see on the pitch. 
 

The point I’m trying to make is that any position we take on the matter is in no way objective, and frankly the both of us are not qualified to make them. 
 

Therefore any discussion can only be a bit of fun, and pure speculation.

FWIW, I don’t really think that social media has any influence on Smith’s decision making, it was a pithy throwaway comment which I was trying to use to highlight negativity on here. I’m kinda regretting saying it now.

[DCJonah]

24 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Sure, you have to keep doing it, but Leeds' performances have improved over the season.  They had a significant issue at the start of the season in that their defending was reckless and they conceded lots of goals.  They appear to have addressed this.  I think that they have also dealt with injuries to key players pretty well - an example being the game at VP when Shackleton came in for Phillips and performed really well.  I would say that their performances demonstrate improvement over the season and a positive momentum (or upwards trajectory).  They have also built an identity/much lauded style of play that I am not sure we have.

Whilst league position for us shows upwards progression, our performances in the second half of this season most definitely do not.  At the minute, minus the summer business (which we all hope will be as good as, if not better than, last summer's business), most neutrals/pundits would probably see us finishing bottom half next year and being relegation fodder without Jack - that, despite having a top 6 back 5 and potential England "9".  I don't think we will by the way.  I think, with the type of investment we will get this summer we will have a really good squad next season, I just remain unconvinced that Dean is the man to consistently get the best out of it, although I do see him here and I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong on this.

 

Well he's done nothing but prove his doubters wrong since coming here. 

[DCJonah]

54 minutes ago, tom_avfc said:

I agree with this although I guess the question is whether there was actually anybody on the bench who could improve the team.

Given that the obvious sub was made with Grealish for Traore on 64 minutes at 2-1 up and we subsequently conceded two goals in 20 minutes to lose the game it’s a question worth asking.

The squad that we have doesn’t lend itself to many substitutions which will positively impact the game in my opinion.

There was no one on that bench that made me think they could have a positive impact on the game. 

When our squad depth is better, I'll then hold Dean to higher expectations in regards to how he uses it. 

But not bringing on the likes of Nakamba or Davis is not something I'm going to use to criticise the man. 

[villa4europe]

29 minutes ago, barry'sboots said:

Sure, you have to keep doing it, but Leeds' performances have improved over the season.  They had a significant issue at the start of the season in that their defending was reckless and they conceded lots of goals.  They appear to have addressed this.  I think that they have also dealt with injuries to key players pretty well - an example being the game at VP when Shackleton came in for Phillips and performed really well.  I would say that their performances demonstrate improvement over the season and a positive momentum (or upwards trajectory).  They have also built an identity/much lauded style of play that I am not sure we have.

Whilst league position for us shows upwards progression, our performances in the second half of this season most definitely do not.  At the minute, minus the summer business (which we all hope will be as good as, if not better than, last summer's business), most neutrals/pundits would probably see us finishing bottom half next year and being relegation fodder without Jack - that, despite having a top 6 back 5 and potential England "9".  I don't think we will by the way.  I think, with the type of investment we will get this summer we will have a really good squad next season, I just remain unconvinced that Dean is the man to consistently get the best out of it, although I do see him here and I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong on this.

You could argue that we have a top 6 back 5 and an England striker because of Smith... 

If he can do to the midfield what he did to the defence then we will be OK, if he can then do it to the attack as well then we could be a bit good 

The main thing is that after he improved the defence its then harsh to suggest that he can't improve the other areas 

As for another comment that it's Leeds first season etc, it's all irrelevant, the playing field is levelled every summer, it being their 2nd season and it being our 3rd next year has no significance, smiths 1st season and Bielsas 1st season are not in competition with each other, neither will their 2nd year, or 3rd, 4th blah blah blah it doesn't work that way