weedman Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 hours ago, TRO said: can't possibly think where we went wrong then.....fool proof!!! What would your alternative be to this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, TRO said: Its been a shambles for some time.....and we keep clamouring to foreign markets to seek solace, paying through the nose, for players not resolute for this league. Konsa, Mings, Heaton, Targett, Hause, Jota, Luiz, Baston, Drinkwater. All signed from English clubs. 6 of them are English. Nationality got nothing to do with it, foreign players are just as determined and resolute as domestic ones. If anything even more. They have to struggle more to get where they are than some pampered academy kid who never had to wash their clothes and got £10k/w as a 17 y.o. There are countless leagues who are more brutal than the PL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: Sherwood keeping us up is nowhere near the achievement of getting promoted last season. Thats ridiculous. Is it? We were dead and buried under Lambert with confidence on the floor. Smith took over when we were 4 points off the play offs and for the second half of the season had probably the best team in the division, it only looked more impressive because of the 10-game win streak but prior to that he presided over an awful 12 games run. Edited July 8, 2020 by jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: How do we know that? he hasnt had a full season in the Championship with the Villa and the ability to buy players....I guess you are basing it on Brentford, which is a different kettle of fish Its my opinion on what i see. you can keep claiming different kettles of fish...... Youcant make that comparison, blah,blah blah managers in the main stay true to their beliefs and styles everywhere they go.....i.e Pulis, big sam etc. Dean has a poor overall win ratio, everwhere he has gone inc Walsall and Brentford.....what was we expecting to change? We thought with big money on transfers it might, but that hasn't worked either. We all bought in to the Romance of a True villa fan as the manager......it hasn't worked and reality should kick in and take over, now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: All the more reason not to gamble on players that nobody has heard of or seen play then ”I needed a car quickly and didn’t have time to do much research so bought a second hand Ssangyong Musso“ Obviously the club didn’t think it was a ‘gamble’ (at least any more than any transfer is a gamble) - the whole DofF scouting structure is set up for exactly this purpose How good Suso and his team are is a different question? ......actually I think only Wesley was a real error - others I think we got about what we paid for. What you would really like though is a DofF who could uncover a couple of gems but I’m not sure if finding a St Maximin is mostly skill or mostly luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 Smith keeps saying "there is a belief" if there is one thing i certainly dont see is a team that believes they can compete. They look spineless and scared at times. I thought playing with no fans we might see abit more belief bit its been just as bad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: Jedinak played 17 games in the championship last season and was just ok He was not the answer I agree......but his type was needed and we ignored that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 hours ago, villalad21 said: We kept hearing Maupay was too expensive yet we payed more for Wesley than Brighton payed for Maupay. Very strange. Maupay cost less because we weren't in for him. He would have cost 25+ if we hadn't signed wes because both us and Brighton were after him. But because we signed wes only Brighton were after him so Brentford had to cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Smith keeps saying "there is a belief" if there is one thing i certainly dont see is a team that believes they can compete. They look spineless and scared at times. I thought playing with no fans we might see abit more belief bit its been just as bad. Nah they are up for it as long as it's 0-0 or we lead. We aren't like West Ham who will keep fighting when 1-0 down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Smith keeps saying "there is a belief" if there is one thing i certainly dont see is a team that believes they can compete. They look spineless and scared at times. I thought playing with no fans we might see abit more belief bit its been just as bad. Its a stock answer that all managers give when they are in trouble......its the same when they say, "the spirit in the dressing room is fine" its all they have to hang on to, when defeats come thick and fast......seen it all before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Smith keeps saying "there is a belief" if there is one thing i certainly dont see is a team that believes they can compete. They look spineless and scared at times. I thought playing with no fans we might see abit more belief bit its been just as bad. The thing is they should believe. I for one think we have the best starting 11 of any of the teams in the bottom 6. We are where we are because our players our cowardly and are never motivated which is on Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weedman Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, jim said: Is it? We were dead and buried under Lambert with confidence on the floor. Smith took over when we were 4 points off the play offs and for the second half of the season had probably the best team in the division, it only looked more impressive because of the 10-game win streak but prior to that he presided over an awful 12 games run. Sherwood took over when we had a core of Guzan, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke, all in their prime. We were underachieving for sure, but we shouldn't have been anywhere near the relegation places. Smith took over when we didn't have a fit CB at the club and had just sacked a manager for failing miserably in our "easy" start to the season, it's not remotely comparable. Sherwood also presided over the biggest shit show I have ever seen from any club, an absolute shambles from top to bottom, leaving us in a position that Lambert, for all his faults, never came close to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 11 minutes ago, jim said: Is it? We were dead and buried under Lambert and bottom of the league IIRC with confidence on the floor. Smith took over when we were 4 points off the play offs and for the second half of the season had probably the best team in the division, it only looked more impressive because of the 10-game win streak but prior to that he presided over an awful 12 games run. I'm pretty sure we weren't bottom, confidence was zapped but that was more about the terrible job lambert had done. We had to break a club record winning streak to go up. Its not even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, weedman said: Sherwood took over when we had a core of Guzan, Vlaar, Delph and Benteke, all in their prime. We were underachieving for sure, but we shouldn't have been anywhere near the relegation places. Smith took over when we didn't have a fit CB at the club and had just sacked a manager for failing miserably in our "easy" start to the season, it's not remotely comparable. Sherwood also presided over the biggest shit show I have ever seen from any club, an absolute shambles from top to bottom, leaving us in a position that Lambert, for all his faults, never came close to And Smith had one of, if the not the best team in the division for half of it that was also vastly under achieving. During Sherwood's bad run we lost by the odd goal apart from Spurs 2-0, hardly shambolic and given he had a new team just like Smith he get's a far rougher ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, TRO said: I agree......but his type was needed and we ignored that. Agree with that, we needed a battler in his late 20s / early 30s something I think they tried to rectify with Drinkwater but obviously got that badly wrong too Not sure who that player is, especially when you're looking at the list of transfers from last summer, don't know how mcarthur has played for Palace this year Cambiasso at Leicester is the easiest example, moutinho at wolves, its not necessarily jedinak or Whelan's age that was the problem for me it was their declining ability 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'm pretty sure we weren't bottom, confidence was zapped but that was more about the terrible job lambert had done. We had to break a club record winning streak to go up. Its not even close. I changed that as I was looking at the wrong season. The win streak was great but let's not forget the team he had at his disposal. Very good to get us up but hardly miracle stuff and we only needed that win streak because we were absolute dog shit 12 games prior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, sne said: Konsa, Mings, Heaton, Targett, Hause, Jota, Luiz, Baston, Drinkwater. All signed from English clubs. 6 of them are English. Nationality got nothing to do with it, foreign players are just as determined and resolute as domestic ones. If anything even more. They have to struggle more to get where they are than some pampered academy kid who never had to wash their clothes and got £10k/w as a 17 y.o. There are countless leagues who are more brutal than the PL. I disagree. The premier league is the most arduous league in world football. I didnt mention their nationality, i mentioned the leagues they play in, the markets we buy from. in my opinion, many foreign leagues put more focus on technique and by definition they give you more space to play in, they come here and unless they are very special, struggle with the press and being closed down too often......that opinion is tempered, by the very top teams in Europe who are more rounded and competitive in winning the ball And turning it over, like ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'm pretty sure we weren't bottom, confidence was zapped but that was more about the terrible job lambert had done. We had to break a club record winning streak to go up. Its not even close. We only had to break that club record because Smith took us on a run of games 13 games with 2 wins, we should never have been that far from the play offs in the first place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 20 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Obviously the club didn’t think it was a ‘gamble’ (at least any more than any transfer is a gamble) - the whole DofF scouting structure is set up for exactly this purpose How good Suso and his team are is a different question? ......actually I think only Wesley was a real error - others I think we got about what we paid for. What you would really like though is a DofF who could uncover a couple of gems but I’m not sure if finding a St Maximin is mostly skill or mostly luck? The harder you work, the luckier you get......a certain amount of luck is attached to everything, we do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Agree with that, we needed a battler in his late 20s / early 30s something I think they tried to rectify with Drinkwater but obviously got that badly wrong too Not sure who that player is, especially when you're looking at the list of transfers from last summer, don't know how mcarthur has played for Palace this year Cambiasso at Leicester is the easiest example, moutinho at wolves, its not necessarily jedinak or Whelan's age that was the problem for me it was their declining ability Totally agree. for me its the one position we have failed to see the significant relevance of and its cost us. its the glue that holds it all together, that protects the defence and starts attacks......not saying, its just that one issue, but to me it has stopped us staying up, it would have consolidated the team and bought us time. I remenber when Robbie Savage left the Blues, they have never been the same, never recovered and never got near us in a game since he went. They are unsung heroes and crucial......look at Henderson at Liverpool, with all the eye candy on show, but he is the forgotten one who links it all and protects the back four......gives them the backbone, to build attacks on. ps if i never wrote another post, the is the one thing we got wrong, that has cost us the most....imo Edited July 8, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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