TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Maybe through play offs again. Smith's teams are far too open to achieve automatic promotion. I think you are right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Maybe through play offs again. Smith's teams are far too open to achieve automatic promotion. I think you could be right, it’s strange because Smith was a centre back himself, he should prioritise being solid defensively. Great sides of the past have been built from the back 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Maybe through play offs again. Smith's teams are far too open to achieve automatic promotion. Such bullshit as usual. Norwich are as open as they get. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Maybe through play offs again. Smith's teams are far too open to achieve automatic promotion. Absolutely not true though. Here's the table from the end of January until the end of the season. We had the joint second best defensive record after Smith's first window. Before this, we had the third worst defensive record. Suggest's the complete opposite of what you said. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think you could be right, it’s strange because Smith was a centre back himself, he should prioritise being solid defensively. Great sides of the past have been built from the back It used to be the general call. The thing for me is, offensively or defensively, one is no good without the other.....we don't want half a team. All the good sides are known for there offensive capability.....but they can all defend too. To play as open as we do, is just simply the sign of a not so good side.....as they say, league positions don't lie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Okonokos said: Absolutely not true though. Here's the table from the end of January until the end of the season. We had the joint second best defensive record after Smith's first window. Before this, we had the third worst defensive record. Suggest's the complete opposite of what you said. Plus it was a better defence than Norwich and they won the league. As I said, bullish at usual. Edited May 8, 2020 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Such bullshit as usual. Norwich are as open as they get. Doing a Norwich really isn't gonna be realistic for most teams trying to get promoted. Norwich really is the outlier. It isn't your typical promotion team. You have to be incredibly strong in the final third to even do what they did. We have seen how we look without Jack. We saw it last season. It's not great. We're not going to tear it up in the Championship. Having a solid defense is the foundation to any successful football team. We can't just ignore it. Edited May 8, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, TRO said: It used to be the general call. The thing for me is, offensively or defensively, one is no good without the other.....we don't want half a team. All the good sides are known for there offensive capability.....but they can all defend too. To play as open as we do, is just simply the sign of a not so good side.....as they say, league positions don't lie. I think we have the foundations in place, a young up and coming manager, vibrant owners and some fantastic players (some not so but that’s the same for every squad in the league). If we stay up, we’ve had a great season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, Okonokos said: Absolutely not true though. Here's the table from the end of January until the end of the season. We had the joint second best defensive record after Smith's first window. Before this, we had the third worst defensive record. Suggest's the complete opposite of what you said. Not sure, i can take that seriously.....17 games out of 48 or take way eleven to exclude Bruces Tenure....which leaves thirty seven......my number key has froze. That would include the ten game winning run, which is kind of hard to expect every season. Its an opinion of course, but this season does support his point, of open play, albeit in a higher league.....we have the worst defensive record in the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Plus it was a better defence than Norwich and they won the league. As I said, bullish at usual. Yeah once we sorted the defense out in the January window we averaged 0.9 goals against per game for the rest of the season. Defensive specialist Bruce had us shipping 1.8 goals per game that season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Not sure, i can take that seriously.....17 games out of 48 or take way eleven to exclude Bruces Tenure....which leaves thirty seven......my number key has froze. That would include the ten game winning run, which is kind of hard to expect every season. Its an opinion of course, but this season does support his point, of open play, albeit in a higher league.....we have the worst defensive record in the division. The original point was that Smith plays too open in the Championship to achieve automatic promotion. I just thought I'd show the table after Smith had a chance to do something about our defence in his first window. What he did was turn the third worst defence into the joint second best, using only the notoriously difficult January window. Clearly the football he plays isn't too open in the Championship. Edited May 8, 2020 by Okonokos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, sir_gary_cahill said: I think we have the foundations in place, a young up and coming manager, vibrant owners and some fantastic players (some not so but that’s the same for every squad in the league). If we stay up, we’ve had a great season It will be a huge relief if we do stay up, by whatever means. "A great season",I can't subscribe to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Doing a Norwich really isn't gonna be realistic for most teams trying to get promoted. Norwich really is the outlier. It isn't your typical promotion team. You have to be incredibly strong in the final third to even do what they did. We have seen how we look without Jack. We saw it last season. It's not great. We're not going to tear it up in the Championship. Having a solid defense is the foundation to any successful football team. We can't just ignore it. Ok but you’ve completely ignoring the fact we had the joint best defence in the league after Smith got his January signings in. Why are you ignoring this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: It will be a huge relief if we do stay up, by whatever means. "A great season",I can't subscribe to that. What were your expectations at the start of the season? A relief? That sounds like you want to get it out of the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, sne said: Yeah once we sorted the defense out in the January window we averaged 0.9 goals against per game for the rest of the season. Defensive specialist Bruce had us shipping 1.8 goals per game that season. Fair enough.....so why has that improvement after sorting the defence out,not followed him in to the Premier League....it was hardly sustainable. Chris wilders work, followed him from the First division to the championship to the Premier league. just asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ok but you’ve completely ignoring the fact we had the joint best defence in the league after Smith got his January signings in. Why are you ignoring this? Too low of a sample size. The 10 game winning run was great but how likely is it to be repeated? especially from what we've witnessed this season? Edited May 8, 2020 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Ok but you’ve completely ignoring the fact we had the joint best defence in the league after Smith got his January signings in. Why are you ignoring this? Its a point, sure, but a selective one. So after he got his signings in......why did that improved work not carry over to the Premier League? just a question. Edited May 8, 2020 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, TRO said: Fair enough.....so why has that improvement after sorting the defence out,not followed him in to the Premier League....it was hardly sustainable. Chris wilders work, followed him from the First division to the championship to the Premier league. just asking. Maybe because it’s a much tougher league? Just a thought. Bloody hell Chris Wilder again! So because they managed it means by default every team should do it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okonokos Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TRO said: Fair enough.....so why has that improvement after sorting the defence out,not followed him in to the Premier League....it was hardly sustainable. Chris wilders work, followed him from the First division to the championship to the Premier league. just asking. Sometimes things don't work out perfectly. It's Smith's first season in the Premier League. Maybe if we do go down, keep him on and he brings us back up he will become a better manager for it. Look at Dyche at Burnley. Brought them up, got relegated in his first season and they kept him on. Hasn't done too badly since has he. Classic example of patience being required. Wilder has done an absolutely fantastic job, no question. Will be interesting to see if he can sustain it into a second season or will it be second season sydrome? Edited May 8, 2020 by Okonokos 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Too low of a sample size. The 10 game winning run was great but how likely is it to be repeated? especially from what we've witnessed this season? Very likely considering the difference between the two leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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