Dean Smith

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, cbr600rr said:

i think we can all agree, we like dean smith, one of us, nice bloke, fairy tail stuff -promotion.

the john terry combo thing, his insta photos look great-but has he made villa solid with his coaching?

we probably dont want big sam,we want a solid football team like burnley or the like but we dont, 

 

You do know Burnley got relegated under Dyche right? If it was down to fans like you Dyche would have been sacked and god know where Burnley would be now. 

[markavfc40]

53 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

Every team has a dip, every manager has set backs......some of the shortfalls we have , have gone unchecked all season....game to game no improvement.

I have no idea, which way it will go.....but sentiment alone will not keep us up, remember that.

I have only picked out a couple of parts of your post as I don't have time to answer it all.

I am not sure what you expected to be honest. This is 80% a new team and pretty much for every outfield player a step up from the level they have played at so of course we will have shortfalls.

I can accept that some of those shortfalls appear to not have improved, although it is only 3 weeks since we beat and completely outplayed Newcastle and then deservedly drew at Man Utd, but I doubt that is down to not working on them that is more likely down to the fact the pressure is now on and inexperienced players are struggling to perform under it. 

As for stating sentiment alone will not keep us up. I doubt one fan is basing their judgement of Smith on sentiment. He has been here 14 months. Took us from a mid table Championship team playing dire football to a Premier League team who along the way have played some cracking stuff. He has also got us to a cup semi final. Not unexpectedly given the huge overhaul in the summer we have struggled in the league and we are, as I personally expected, in a relegation battle, but Smith has earned the right to be given more time given how far he has taken us in just 14 months and it has zero to do with sentiment.

This club needs our support as much as it ever has. We have an inexperienced side who are struggling and the boost and confidence that will come off the back of a couple of quick wins would do them the world of good. I hope we are all behind them on Thursday, and the coaching team, and don't have short memories. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by markavfc40

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

I wouldn't say any of the very few chances we missed were golden chances. You make it sound like they were sitters we missed.

Hourihane and El Ghazi’s chances were as good as anything Liverpool created. They won from a F**king backwards header from a corner for f**ks sake.  We competed.

Anyway I’ve already said my point was I think this team would compete for top 2 in championship without Jack and under Smith. You don’t agree. Let’s leave it there.

[cbr600rr]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

You know it took Burnley around 6 years including a relegation to be able to play the way they do. It’s a shame Smith is expected to it overnight. Hopefully if he does get sacked there is a manager out there that can do it overnight. 

but SD had a blueprint, his backroom staff worked on it. 

if dyche was to take over at the villa & was told ..err john terry will be working with you etc, dyche would say no thanks,he dont fit in to the plans,not needed.

different manager to smith.but if santa was to bring a manager to replace smith ,thats the sort of manager that would get our club on track

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

So you think sacking our manager after the first hint of a crisis and replacing him with Fat Sam is high expectations?

You've spent most of the last few pages telling everyone that Fat Sam won the Championship the last time he was in it - then quietly moving on from that after someone pointed out he scraped through the play offs.

He's been managing for 30 years and has two honours to his name: League of Ireland, and an English Third Division title. He has a career win rate of 39%. He's also a self-promoting, two-faced word removed who'd be on Sky Sports tearing into the club the minute he got sacked.

He might (might) be a marginal improvement on Smith in a backs-to-the-wall relegation fight, I'll give him that. But the idea that backing Fat Sam shows your "winner" mentality, and the people defending Smith have a "loser" mentality is... just bizarre.

But two wrongs don't make a right.

I don' t want it to end with Dean losing his job, but i do want to see him tighten us up, the defensive errors we manage are painfully incompetent.

The Big Sam suggestion is a red herring imo.....but only a fool, would fail to recognise his ability to get a team to defend...so its easy to see why folk mention his name....its what we can't do.

what Dean did last season was commendable, but that had gone.....we are in a different place and a place he and we wanted to be.

Dean has to fix it.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, cbr600rr said:

but SD had a blueprint, his backroom staff worked on it. 

if dyche was to take over at the villa & was told ..err john terry will be working with you etc, dyche would say no thanks,he dont fit in to the plans,not needed.

different manager to smith.but if santa was to bring a manager to replace smith ,thats the sort of manager that would get our club on track

Yes he has a blueprint and it got Burnley relegated initially.  If you were a Burnley fan at that time I doubt very much you would be saying it’s ok if we get beaten every week. Dyche has a blueprint so it’s ok. 

If Dyche took over us now history suggests we’d get relegated too, he needed years to get Burnley playing as they are.
 

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing isn’t it?

[M_Afro]

30 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

If we get relegated we won't get more than 40 mill for him

Ha ha. Man Utd paid £50m for a full back who had only played a handful of games in the PL. If Jack goes, it will be for a good deal more than that.

[jim]

3 hours ago, tomav84 said:

but he was right! 2 bad performances and people want deano sacked FFS!!

Performances mean squat, it’s results that count!

[cbr600rr]

Just now, Vive_La_Villa said:

Yes he has a blueprint and it got Burnley relegated initially.  If you were a Burnley fan at that time I doubt very much you would be saying it’s ok if we get beaten every week. Dyche has a blueprint so it’s ok. 

If Dyche took over us now history suggests we’d get relegated too, he needed years to get Burnley playing as they are.
 

Hindsight’s a wonderful thing isn’t it?

its the here & now, lets give smith 6 years. 

lets sit on our seats with our fingers crossed for the next 20 games, i hope smith says .. see told ya..

[Laughable Chimp]

11 minutes ago, cbr600rr said:

but SD had a blueprint, his backroom staff worked on it. 

if dyche was to take over at the villa & was told ..err john terry will be working with you etc, dyche would say no thanks,he dont fit in to the plans,not needed.

different manager to smith.but if santa was to bring a manager to replace smith ,thats the sort of manager that would get our club on track

To add to this, and this is probably the last time I'm gonna bring this point up since its a bit annoying havign to bring it up again and again with no counter.

How many Sean Dyche situations are there outside of well, Sean Dyche? I found only 2 other situations of a similar situation happening of a manager bringing up a clup to the PL, getting relegated again and the club sticking by them. Both were sacked the very first season they were in the championship again. There's actually more examples of a club suffering from sticking under a manager through relegation than sticking by them.

Secondly, whilst Burnley are doing decent now, does anybody actually know where they would be had they actually sacked their manager? They could've survived relegation and continue to build from there, instead of having to take the risk of going back down without ever knowing if they could in fact go back up again. If there is an alternate universe possibility of Burnley surviving relegation and continuing to build even whilst in the PL, surely that would be considered even more of a success then what actually happened to them? Not to diminish Dysche's accomplishments but its hard to say sticking with him was the best decision when no one knows where Burnley would actually be if they sacked him. 

 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Laughable Chimp

[cbr600rr]

3 minutes ago, jim said:

Performances mean squat, it’s results that count!

its both really..take the brighton game, we won but the performance was bad v 10 men..you get found out in this league.brighton will finish above villa not because they have spent 150m ,because they are solid & organised. 

[villalad21]

Dyche was given nothing for a transfer budget compared to Dean.

I don't think it's even comparable.

Burnley is a little club with little expectations.

 

[cbr600rr]

6 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

To add to this, and this is probably the last time I'm gonna bring this point up since its a bit annoying havign to bring it up again and again with no counter.

How many Sean Dyche situations are there outside of well, Sean Dyche? I found only 2 other situations of a similar situation happening of a manager bringing up a clup to the PL, getting relegated again and the club sticking by them. Both were sacked the very first season they were in the championship again. There's actually more examples of a club suffering from sticking under a manager through relegation than sticking by them.

Secondly, whilst Burnley are doing decent now, does anybody actually know where they would be had they actually sacked their manager? They could've survived relegation and continue to build from there, instead of having to take the risk of going back down without ever knowing if they could in fact go back up again. If there is an alternate universe possibility of Burnley surviving relegation and continuing to build even whilst in the PL, surely that would be considered even more of a success then what actually happened to them? Not to diminish Dysche's accomplishments but its hard to say sticking with him was the best decision when no one knows where Burnley would actually be if they sacked him. 

 

good points..however i have never posted -smith out-..not once,

the model of sticking with your manager might be the one the wealthy owner feel is the way forward

smith MIGHT turn villa into a solid prem outfit ..who knows 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

16 minutes ago, cbr600rr said:

its the here & now, lets give smith 6 years. 

lets sit on our seats with our fingers crossed for the next 20 games, i hope smith says .. see told ya..

Mate you’re the one that said you want a manager like Dyche. I’m just telling you he didn’t make Burnley an organised team over night. It took him several years. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by Vive_La_Villa

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Dyche was given nothing for a transfer budget compared to Dean.

I don't think it's even comparable.

Burnley is a little club with little expectations.

 

Exactly. Dyche wouldn’t have lasted 6 months at this club. As soon as we went 18th the knives would be out. So I find it a hilarious that a fan now wants a manager like Dyche! 

[Vive_La_Villa]

12 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

To add to this, and this is probably the last time I'm gonna bring this point up since its a bit annoying havign to bring it up again and again with no counter.

How many Sean Dyche situations are there outside of well, Sean Dyche? I found only 2 other situations of a similar situation happening of a manager bringing up a clup to the PL, getting relegated again and the club sticking by them. Both were sacked the very first season they were in the championship again. There's actually more examples of a club suffering from sticking under a manager through relegation than sticking by them.

Secondly, whilst Burnley are doing decent now, does anybody actually know where they would be had they actually sacked their manager? They could've survived relegation and continue to build from there, instead of having to take the risk of going back down without ever knowing if they could in fact go back up again. If there is an alternate universe possibility of Burnley surviving relegation and continuing to build even whilst in the PL, surely that would be considered even more of a success then what actually happened to them? Not to diminish Dysche's accomplishments but its hard to say sticking with him was the best decision when no one knows where Burnley would actually be if they sacked him. 

 

Agree with all this. I didn’t say sticking with Dyche was the right thing for Burnley to do at the time. My point was in response to a poster saying they wanted us to be organised like Burnley. I was merely pointing out Dyche didn’t do it overnight and suffered relegation in the meantime. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

This thinking that they are a small club, we are a big club mentality is really some of the stuff that's holding us back. 

We ARE a big club, but ultimately it's hard work that pays off. Burnley are whether we like it or not a more established PL club than us now. Using stature as an argument as to what we should expect doesn't hold water. We need to buckle down and earn what we want like everyone else. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I have only picked out a couple of parts of your post as I don't have time to answer it all.

I am not sure what you expected to be honest. This is 80% a new team and pretty much for every outfield player a step up from the level they have played at so of course we will have shortfalls.

I can accept that some of those shortfalls appear to not have improved, although it is only 3 weeks since we beat and completely outplayed Newcastle and then deservedly drew at Man Utd, but I doubt that is down to not working on them that is more likely down to the fact the pressure is now on and inexperienced players are struggling to perform under it. 

As for stating sentiment alone will not keep us up. I doubt one fan is basing their judgement of Smith on sentiment. He has been here 14 months. Took us from a mid table Championship team playing dire football to a Premier League team who along the way have played some cracking stuff. He has also got us to a cup semi final. Not unexpectedly given the huge overhaul in the summer we have struggled in the league and we are, as I personally expected, in a relegation battle, but Smith has earned the right to be given more time given how far he has taken us in just 14 months and it has zero to do with sentiment.

This club needs our support as much as it ever has. We have an inexperienced side who are struggling and the boost and confidence that will come off the back of a couple of quick wins would do them the world of good. I hope we are all behind them on Thursday and the coaching team and don't have short memories. 

I know all the history Mark and while it is commendable....it won't save us, last season has gone.....The team are mainly a team of internationals, so the picture you paint is very forgiving.....The stuff I am vexed about, is the basics, yes I do expect that so early on .

I disagree a few wins will suffice, as if its just a local confidence thing,but I don't think it is,i think it needs Real work....of an organisational kind.

We have had plenty of games this season where certain traits of the game have been superb.....whilst at the same time other certain traits like defensive capability has been poor.

I hear your claim about gelling and players from a different league and while it has a legitimate tone, it's also worth remembering the french influx that didn't work....we have spent £130 million  to have players defend like that.

We have had our unfair share of managers that haven't worked and supported them during their tenure....despite the fancy comments from the media, we are not fickle, but we do respond to **** poor play.

I don't think it is fair to mention support, the crowds have been phenomenal and only saturday did we hear a few boos. If you think discerning fans are going to dismiss some of the woeful errors as just a bad day at the office, i think you are underestimating them.Even the manager himself said they had justification, while personally, i don't support it.....but someone has to say its not good enough.

The club has always needed our support,and got it, even through the days of the Normansells and the Pat Matthews take over.....its in our DNA.....its one of the best supported clubs in the land....we don't need reminding of our duties.

We need to remind our manager that sending a team out to offer such a woeful attempt at Commitment and an ability to defend, is more the tree to bark up.

It takes a certain type of individual to defend the indefensible.....but Support for him will be there while he is our manager.

When you say, I don't know what you expect?.....I expect the basics to be carried out, I expect to make a decent fist of second balls, first touch and closing down.....I don't think the things we are expecting is too unreasonable from many who are International players

I think it is wrong to boo, but I also think its wrong for folk to stay silent on a forum and not report what they see, in fear of being classed as a fan with too high an expectation.

He needs to fix it Mark.

ps as you well know from the last manager, I am not really in favour of sackings.....but I am not in favour of poor aspects  of play either.

PPS If you think I will turn up on Thursday with anything less than full support for the team and manager, you don't know me.....but hear is a place to be honest with ourselves.

Edited December 24, 2019 by TRO

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Whelan and Jedinak would 100 % have worked under Allardyce.

Can guarantee you that we wouldn't be anywhere near the bottom 3 with Allardyce in charge.

That is unemployed Jedinak and Whelan who is struggling at the bottom club in the SPL

We would be winless I think with them starting 

[villalad21]

21 minutes ago, Zatman said:

That is unemployed Jedinak and Whelan who is struggling at the bottom club in the SPL

We would be winless I think with them starting 

They both did fine last season

Edited December 24, 2019 by villalad21