Dave J Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 hours ago, tomav84 said: being dependent on one player could apply to even the top clubs and it really is true in our case. might have had more possession and shots but i dont think we deserved any more than those 5 points we got based on overall play. Preston (A) 1-1 - played poorly but probably deserved a point QPR (H) 2-2 - played crap and deserved no more than a point Hull (H) 2-2 - see above to be honest Shef Utd (H) 3-3 - salvaged a draw from their errors, we deserved to lose West Brom (H) 0-2 - got exactly what we deserved Stoke (A) 1-1 - lots of possession but created too few chances to deserve a win jack returning has given everyone a lift. it might be pure coincidence that things are clicking into place or it could coincide with the injury to hutton for all i know. i just hope he stays fit for the season and we build a team that can win without him in the summer whether we go up or not. premiership teams will have the ability to contain him, so we'll need a plan B I think you are right - we are dependent on Jack - be this as a result of his creativity with a football or even from a psychological perspective from the team - but it's plain to see imo. Every club in this league misses a fit Jack again imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted March 19, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted March 19, 2019 12 hours ago, tomav84 said: being dependent on one player could apply to even the top clubs and it really is true in our case. might have had more possession and shots but i dont think we deserved any more than those 5 points we got based on overall play. Preston (A) 1-1 - played poorly but probably deserved a point QPR (H) 2-2 - played crap and deserved no more than a point Hull (H) 2-2 - see above to be honest Shef Utd (H) 3-3 - salvaged a draw from their errors, we deserved to lose West Brom (H) 0-2 - got exactly what we deserved Stoke (A) 1-1 - lots of possession but created too few chances to deserve a win jack returning has given everyone a lift. it might be pure coincidence that things are clicking into place or it could coincide with the injury to hutton for all i know. i just hope he stays fit for the season and we build a team that can win without him in the summer whether we go up or not. premiership teams will have the ability to contain him, so we'll need a plan B Jack returning has given the whole club a lift no question, but it was actually this Stoke game we returned to form, the game before his return. To say we didnt deserve the win is simply wrong. I know it seems pedantic but the point here is that Smith was getting a tune out of the team once again without Jack, he just took us onto another level! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) On 17/03/2019 at 21:01, Vive_La_Villa said: I think a combination of the return of Jack, change of keeper, solid centre halves and Smiths coaching/training starting to show on the pitch has made us a real force. we can't underestimate the confidence they have given the team......Mings is awesome....and subsequently the midfield are playing with more freedom. Edited March 20, 2019 by TRO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 14 hours ago, Dave J said: I think you are right - we are dependent on Jack - be this as a result of his creativity with a football or even from a psychological perspective from the team - but it's plain to see imo. Every club in this league misses a fit Jack again imo Yes, and that's the point. Of course we are a much, much, much better team with Jack in the side, because he is the best player in the division. But to say "DS is dependent on Jack" is nonsense (I know you're not saying this, but others have). DS had loads of other stuff to sort out, and he has mostly achieved that. We now look solid defensively -- his critics said DS teams always shipped goals. We regularly dominate the shot count -- his critics said DS teams dominate possession with no end product. These improvements were happening well before Jack returned. Now we've thrown Jack back into the mix, and we're playing some of the best football I've seen at Villa for years, with good game management and end product on top of attractive football. DS's influence on Jack shouldn't be underestimated, anyway. In a fairly short space of time, he has converted Jack from a Number 10 to a much deeper central midfielder who is able to influence every phase of the game. I don't remember any other manager getting this kind of tune out of him. Unfortunately, that's why he now leaves a bigger hole in the team when he's injured. Jack is an unusual player. Most fast, technical players don't have the mental attributes to play in centre mid; most players who know how to play centre mid don't have Jack's technical and athletic attributes. That isn't just within the Villa squad, but across football more generally. A genuine like-for-like replacement for Jack is going to cost £££ and probably already plays at a higher level. So DS needs to have two completely different systems, depending on whether Jack's available, or he needs to find a like-for-like replacement. That's a big ask for a manager to sort out in half a season, with one January transfer window, while also fixing a leaky defence, trying to squeeze out results, etc. IMO he's done a decent job since he arrived, and as another poster said, is probably the best thing to happen to this club in years. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, KentVillan said: But to say "DS is dependent on Jack" is nonsense So why did we only have 2 wins out of 13 games without Jack? We can't win football games without him and that is just a sad reality. Edited March 20, 2019 by villalad21 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 1 minute ago, villalad21 said: So why did we only have 2 wins out of 13 games without Jack? We had 7 draws as well... half the squad were signed in January... we had other injuries... and all the other stuff we've been repeating ad nauseam on this thread, but you seem determined to ignore? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, KentVillan said: We had 7 draws as well... half the squad were signed in January... we had other injuries... and all the other stuff we've been repeating ad nauseam on this thread, but you seem determined to ignore? Every teams have injuries, it's not an excuse. Leeds had loads of injuries when they played us yet they didn't seem to drop that much in terms of performance. Fact is if you take out Grealish in the team right now, we would probably not win too many football games. Edited March 20, 2019 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Every teams have injuries, it's not an excuse. Leeds had loads of injuries when they played us yet they didn't too seem to drop that much in terms of performance. Fact is if you take out Grealish in the team right now, we would not win football games. Yeah I suppose if this was a fair reflection of what I'd actually said, you'd be right*. But it isn't, so you're just arguing with some fictional invention that you plucked out of your crack. * ignoring the fact** that we have already won games without Jack ** actual fact, not an opinion masquerading as a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 32 minutes ago, villalad21 said: So why did we only have 2 wins out of 13 games without Jack? We can't win football games without him and that is just a sad reality. You do know we won 2 in 12 with Jack before Smith joined? Jack is a massive player for us but there have been so many factors this season for the poor form. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted March 20, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: Every teams have injuries, it's not an excuse. Leeds had loads of injuries when they played us yet they didn't seem to drop that much in terms of performance. Fact is if you take out Grealish in the team right now, we would probably not win too many football games. You think it might have anything to do with not having another player similar to Jack in our squad, and when attempting to fill his position with others they have gotten injured? Do Leicester win as much without Vardy? Do Liverpool defend as well without Van Dijk? Are Barcelona just as potent without Messi? Do Real Madrid look the same without Ronaldo? Common sense should also tell you injuries will affect a team less if they have adequate replacement for the injured parties, and the squad is well versed in a system! All of which are factors which coincided with our dip in form. Do you think if god Forbid Mings got injured we would look the same defensively? Would this mean again the manager is shite or that Mings is an outstanding defender who is hard to replace? At some points it just seems some people have to stick to their guns because backtracking or giving the manager credit where it's due is too bitter of a pill to swallow. Edited March 20, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Any manager would struggle to get a tune out of this current Villa side without Grealish. At the same time we should not be completely hopeless without him. There were loads of reasons we looked so hapless for a too long period this winter, Jack out was one of them. Some of the old players downing tools was another. the squad being lopsided and unbalanced another, Smith being a Championship level coach (hopefully with bigger potential) and not the second coming of Jebus another yet, and so on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 The amount of tactics we've tried under Smith is pretty remarkable to be honest. While we were going through a ton of draws Smith was trying all sorts and sometimes that is required to find a formula for winning. I think it really shows the man Smith is and how he can bring a team back to winning ways given time and patience. Some managers once they go on a losing or drawing streak can never bring it back to winning ways which is why they end up being sacked. The squad which Smith inherited from Bruce certainly has shown to be a troubled squad in the past. Those new additions this season ie Mings and Hause has certainly calmed things down, its as if our tiny defenders were scared until those two big lads came in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 It's the @villalad21 call and response show, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, briny_ear said: It's the @villalad21 call and response show, isn't it? Pretty sure it's the Steve Bruce thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, sne said: Pretty sure it's the Steve Bruce thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I don't think it's too much of a coincidence that our better performances have started since Hutton got injured. He got into a lot of great positions going forward but often messed it up with a poor final ball. Also, defensively, he was appalling. Smith's got us winning again. Whether that's because of Grealish in or Hutton out is irrelevant. The key is, we are heading in the right direction and we need to do all we can to keep it going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 6 hours ago, villalad21 said: So why did we only have 2 wins out of 13 games without Jack? We can't win football games without him and that is just a sad reality. but we still won 2 games If we couldnt win football games without Jack it would have been 0 wins in 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 52 minutes ago, villarocker said: I don't think it's too much of a coincidence that our better performances have started since Hutton got injured. He got into a lot of great positions going forward but often messed it up with a poor final ball. Also, defensively, he was appalling. Nail on head! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 8 hours ago, KentVillan said: Yes, and that's the point. Of course we are a much, much, much better team with Jack in the side, because he is the best player in the division. But to say "DS is dependent on Jack" is nonsense (I know you're not saying this, but others have). DS had loads of other stuff to sort out, and he has mostly achieved that. We now look solid defensively -- his critics said DS teams always shipped goals. We regularly dominate the shot count -- his critics said DS teams dominate possession with no end product. These improvements were happening well before Jack returned. Now we've thrown Jack back into the mix, and we're playing some of the best football I've seen at Villa for years, with good game management and end product on top of attractive football. DS's influence on Jack shouldn't be underestimated, anyway. In a fairly short space of time, he has converted Jack from a Number 10 to a much deeper central midfielder who is able to influence every phase of the game. I don't remember any other manager getting this kind of tune out of him. Unfortunately, that's why he now leaves a bigger hole in the team when he's injured. Jack is an unusual player. Most fast, technical players don't have the mental attributes to play in centre mid; most players who know how to play centre mid don't have Jack's technical and athletic attributes. That isn't just within the Villa squad, but across football more generally. A genuine like-for-like replacement for Jack is going to cost £££ and probably already plays at a higher level. So DS needs to have two completely different systems, depending on whether Jack's available, or he needs to find a like-for-like replacement. That's a big ask for a manager to sort out in half a season, with one January transfer window, while also fixing a leaky defence, trying to squeeze out results, etc. IMO he's done a decent job since he arrived, and as another poster said, is probably the best thing to happen to this club in years. Jack has many,many attributes but for me his ability to control the ball and be comfortable on it, is unprecedented at this level....to get the equivalent you would have to go in to the top 6 of the prem. In terms of comfort with the ball alone, its unlikely we will ever be able to replace him at present. His ability to suck players in to him, leaves space for others and that's down to Jacks ability with the ball.....he must have been born with one.....have to ask Mrs Grealish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicVillan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, TRO said: Jacks ability with the ball.....he must have been born with one.....have to ask Mrs Grealish. I hope he has a full complement , he certainly seems perfectly balanced 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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