A'Villan Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 The same could be accomplished without the tunnel if everyone was afforded a Ferrari F50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, TheAuthority said: I don't won't to go into a tube underground in one the the most active earthquake areas of the USA. Why is no-one talking about that? i've tried looking and cant find an answer but there must be a reason as to why LA doesnt have a proper underground system, like you say earthquakes, ground conditions, cost retrospectively boring a tunnel system now would cost an absolute fortune and cause years of disruption to a city that already struggles, its dead in the water but it made a great and timely diversion on the news that his rocket launch didnt happen again and from the michael o'leary school of marketing tesla is getting a lot of free coverage for spouting some bollocks that will never happen Edited December 20, 2018 by villa4europe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 15, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) Firstly Musk is an odious character However I'm beginning to change my mind about the prospects of Tesla after watching this hugely interesting and informative podcast. Whatever you feel about Musk, the Tesla story is quite remarkable. Bearing in mind they've probably cemented a market leading position from a standing start, it looks like some gigantic long established corporations who should have been able to do what they've done and swatted them aside are probably not going to make it through this. Some really really interesting things raised here, especially as Tesla see no issues with the required materials needed to electrictrify everything. Also interesting they seem to be somewhat reducing the amount of Musk from these presentations, presumably to remove some of the stink. Edited March 15, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 13 hours ago, sidcow said: Firstly Musk is an odious character However I'm beginning to change my mind about the prospects of Tesla after watching this hugely interesting and informative podcast. Whatever you feel about Musk, the Tesla story is quite remarkable. Bearing in mind they've probably cemented a market leading position from a standing start, it looks like some gigantic long established corporations who should have been able to do what they've done and swatted them aside are probably not going to make it through this. Some really really interesting things raised here, especially as Tesla see no issues with the required materials needed to electrictrify everything. Also interesting they seem to be somewhat reducing the amount of Musk from these presentations, presumably to remove some of the stink. Yes, it’s been quite fashionable to talk down Tesla lately but they are still easily the market leader in their field and if anything pulling away from their rivals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 41 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Yes, it’s been quite fashionable to talk down Tesla lately but they are still easily the market leader in their field and if anything pulling away from their rivals. Bit of the IPhone effect isn't it. It's a combination of fashion and a good product - even if competitors serve up a cheaper, more practical, often generally better product, who want's an electric MG or Seat on their drive when the neighbour can make their car horn sound like a fart and the doors open funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Bit of the IPhone effect isn't it. It's a combination of fashion and a good product - even if competitors serve up a cheaper, more practical, often generally better product, who want's an electric MG or Seat on their drive when the neighbour can make their car horn sound like a fart and the doors open funny. No, I don’t think that is it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 I’m not sure what Tesla are market leaders in? Other manufacturers have better range, better looks and better quality. They were first to mass market which is huge, but their market share is being eaten up by the traditional manufacturers. They might have a better network of chargers but as you can charge at home that isn’t the be all and end all imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 18 minutes ago, Genie said: I’m not sure what Tesla are market leaders in? Other manufacturers have better range, better looks and better quality. They were first to mass market which is huge, but their market share is being eaten up by the traditional manufacturers. They might have a better network of chargers but as you can charge at home that isn’t the be all and end all imo. If you are going to buy a car and go through the pros and cons of each, weighted against cost, it is very hard to find a better deal than the Model Y for an SUV or a Model 3 for a small sedan. This is the global EV sales in 2022. The ‘BYD’ models on that list are Chinese hybrids. The only European EV is the ID4 down there in 9th. I’ve looked at reviews of the ID4 and I would have to go for a Tesla over one of them at a similar price point. The Mercedes/BMW etc offerings are all way to expensive to be a mass market car. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted March 16, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 16, 2023 As I've said before, the Hyundais and Kias are the way to go with EVs at the moment. Maybe the Polestars too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 45 minutes ago, LondonLax said: If you are going to buy a car and go through the pros and cons of each, weighted against cost, it is very hard to find a better deal than the Model Y for an SUV or a Model 3 for a small sedan. This is the global EV sales in 2022. The ‘BYD’ models on that list are Chinese hybrids. The only European EV is the ID4 down there in 9th. I’ve looked at reviews of the ID4 and I would have to go for a Tesla over one of them at a similar price point. The Mercedes/BMW etc offerings are all way to expensive to be a mass market car. But that table sort of confirms the iPhone effect - just because it sells most, doesn't mean it's best. If you are after some quality in the 40-50k range for an electric SUV, get a Skoda Enyaq. Or for half the price, Kia Niro. And if you are after a sedan, model 3 is over 40k - that is not a feasible family car. A very efficient Focus is almost half price of that with the 1ltr turbo engine. I'm not saying they are bad cars. They are market leaders in numbers (many company cars are Teslas) but they are not feasible for a regular family who opt out for a better made car. I'll stick to my IPhone comparison. Good product, but it carries a price and quality that can easily be beaten when you look into Oppo, Realme etc. But it's a bit cooler to have a Tesla than a Kia. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: As I've said before, the Hyundais and Kias are the way to go with EVs at the moment. Maybe the Polestars too. The Polestar is way more expensive than a Tesla 3 or Y though I’ve not been super impressed with the Hyundai but the Kia EV6 looks like it is a good option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 16, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2023 Another reason Tesla are so far ahead on sales is because they are pretty much the only company with decent delivery times right now There are much better cars but they are like rocking horse shit to find 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 16, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 16, 2023 If you watch the podcast the presenters (who are heavily involved with ALL electric car manufacturers) seem more than convinced of their market leading position and that its going to accelerate, not contract. Plus don't forget Tesla are not just a car company. They've got their fingers in many pies so when the car market slows they have other revenue streams they can concentrate on which puts them in a strong position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 Just now, sidcow said: If you watch the podcast the presenters (who are heavily involved with ALL electric car manufacturers) seem more than convinced of their market leading position and that its going to accelerate, not contract. Plus don't forget Tesla are not just a car company. They've got their fingers in many pies so when the car market slows they have other revenue streams they can concentrate on which puts them in a strong position. I would say they are more of a battery company who happens to strap wheels to some of their batteries 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, bickster said: Another reason Tesla are so far ahead on sales is because they are pretty much the only company with decent delivery times right now There are much better cars but they are like rocking horse shit to find This is because Tesla are one of the few manufacturers who make their own batteries. The other car manufacturers source them from 3rd party suppliers, typically out of China. Volkswagon are going to start making their own batteries starting in 2025 but they are years behind Tesla. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 16, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) In the next 2 years Seat/VW/Skoda are due to bring out a Polo sized EV for about £17k. That's going to put the cat amongst the pigeons. So far all manufacturers have been scrapping over the high end SUV market (wrongly in my opinion) So far only the Chinese have really produced smaller, cheaper vehicles but not yet really brought them here. Tesla are working on a smaller car but it won't be that cheap. Now, if you're looking to go electric in the next few years, and can't afford or don't want a big SUV, just a small city car are you more likely to plump for a £17k Volkswagen or a funny sounding unknown Chinese manufacturer? I think VW are going to steal a huge march here. Once you're in a brand, maybe first car and like it you're more likely to develop loyalty. I think the Chinese should have come sooner, and other established manufacturers should have left THE SUV scrap competing with each other for the same customers and sold a smaller/cheaper car, even as a loss leader to establish their reputation in the market. Ford should have been neck and neck with VW with an electric KA or Fiesta but they're still years away. I think VW have played this right, especially if they've learned all their lessons from the ID4. Edited March 16, 2023 by sidcow 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 16, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2023 2 minutes ago, LondonLax said: This is because Tesla are one of the few manufacturers who make their own batteries. The other car manufacturers source them from 3rd party suppliers, typically out of China. Volkswagon are going to start making their own batteries starting in 2025 but they are years behind Tesla. Well yes thats a big part of the reason but there's also that they are all still in transition switching over from petrol and just don't have the capacity too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 16, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted March 16, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bickster said: Well yes thats a big part of the reason but there's also that they are all still in transition switching over from petrol and just don't have the capacity too Yeah, Tesla had the luxury of starting ground up. Traditional manufacturers have been split between selling their existing stuff, reluctance to move early and as the podcast says, flip flopping between Hydrogen and Battery and hybrid, not really committing to anything. Some just had their fingers in their ears. LA LA LA LA. Tesla just from day1 had no other cars to sell or worry about and were just all in battery electic. Zero distraction. Finally, can you imagine where Austin Rover would have been in all this (in the hugely unlikely event they would have made it this far had they been bailed out) The British Government couldn't even support a battery factory. Edited March 16, 2023 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sid4ever Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: The Polestar is way more expensive than a Tesla 3 or Y though I’ve not been super impressed with the Hyundai but the Kia EV6 looks like it is a good option. Love my Hyundai Ioniq 5, only bug bear is no rear screen wiper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 16, 2023 Moderator Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Sid4ever said: Love my Hyundai Ioniq 5, only bug bear is no rear screen wiper. Has it got the stupid split rear screen on the 5? We've got a load of 4s and the rear split screen is highly irritating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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