TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zatman said: Mellberg and Dublin the only 2 good signings out of 10 for mighty Doug Ellis, Angel was a fan favourite but wasnt worth the price for us. Collymore was shit as useless as Scott Hogan for us, Stone was average and never really a starter here I disagree........but you said they were all duds. but they are just 10 you have picked.....out of hundreds of players of both persuasions ....there are also a rake of good players. Collymore as bad as scott hogan......get out of here. ...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: We have to show them that their investment is prudent and secure their enthusiasm. This is a lovely thought TRO, but in reality, we don't. "We" the fans can and do support the side in good numbers and we buy the kits and whatever. The game now, however is not as it once was. Gate receipts don't much matter - TV runs the shop in terms of revenue. And sponsorship. That comes from what league the club plays in. And that comes entirely, or almost entirely from the money spent and the choices made by owners. Realistically only they and their actions can really "show themselves that their investment is prudent and maintain their enthusiasm". We're just happy or sad noise and colour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, TRO said: I disagree........but you said they were all duds. but they are just 10 you have picked.....out of hundreds of players of both persuasions ....there are also a rake of good players. Collymore as bad as scott hogan......get out of here. ...... They are the top 10 signings from Doug Ellis who you said was super shrewd 7 goals in 46 games or 7 goals in 56 games. Guess which is Hogan and which is Collymore 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 6 minutes ago, Zatman said: They are the top 10 signings from Doug Ellis who you said was super shrewd 7 goals in 46 games or 7 goals in 56 games. Guess which is Hogan and which is Collymore Hogan also didn't go stomp on his girlsfriends head which is a big + in my book. Not that I blame Ellis for Collymore doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I think we can all agree that the 140m or whatever it was could have been invested a bit better. The question is whether the owners are responsible and I think the answer ultimately has to be Yes. You can pass the buck all you want: "The owners appointed what appeared to be sound football people" "The apparently sound football people bought what appeared to be good players" "The apparently good players need more time to adapt to their new surroundings" and so on. I'm fairly sure NSWE would admit they didn't make the best decisions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Angel was let down by having to play with half wits like Vassell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: Collymore as bad as scott hogan......get out of here. ...... Collymore was a very good player early in his career, but a very bad Villa player and a complete waste of our record fee. His record is very, very similar to Luke Moore's for Villa. What's more, I think it was always likely he was going to be - everyone knew he was trouble when he arrived and Brian Little reportedly didn't want him - if we're talking about owners being responsible for signings, I think this one's on Ellis and in a way that I'm not sure any of our other owners would consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 hour ago, sne said: Hogan also didn't go stomp on his girlsfriends head which is a big + in my book. Not that I blame Ellis for Collymore doing so. I'm sure @TRO holds Ellis responsible. He was chairman at the time after all. Should have had his ship in order. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, BigJim said: The question is whether the owners are responsible and I think the answer ultimately has to be Yes. Just a weird view IMO. It just suggests that owners are responsible for all failures and all successes. It just isn't the case. Unfortunately it seems we live in an age of no accountability. If you do a shit job, its your fault, not your bosses. IMO If they hired complete unknowns and put these people in a position to fail, I agree. But they've hired people who are by no means out of their depth, and backed them. Edited March 18, 2020 by kurtsimonw 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 7 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Just a weird view IMO. It just suggests that owners are responsible for all failures and all successes. It just isn't the case. Unfortunately it seems we live in an age of no accountability. If you do a shit job, its your fault, not your bosses. Yeah, just another way of looking at it. But if you make an investment and it goes wrong, it's not very productive to just pass the responsibility off onto someone else. Sure, you can do it if it makes you feel better. Look, I'm not blaming the owners in the sense of wanting them out or wanting to yell at them. I'm just saying that if they had appointed different people they may have got a better result. In that sense, they are responsible in my book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, BigJim said: Yeah, just another way of looking at it. But if you make an investment and it goes wrong, it's not very productive to just pass the responsibility off onto someone else. Sure, you can do it if it makes you feel better. Look, I'm not blaming the owners in the sense of wanting them out or wanting to yell at them. I'm just saying that if they had appointed different people they may have got a better result. In that sense, they are responsible in my book. Any team could have got better results. Each to their own, I just personally don't think they're to blame. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, BigJim said: I think we can all agree that the 140m or whatever it was could have been invested a bit better. The question is whether the owners are responsible and I think the answer ultimately has to be Yes. You can pass the buck all you want: "The owners appointed what appeared to be sound football people" "The apparently sound football people bought what appeared to be good players" "The apparently good players need more time to adapt to their new surroundings" and so on. I'm fairly sure NSWE would admit they didn't make the best decisions. Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, Tomaszk said: I'm sure @TRO holds Ellis responsible. He was chairman at the time after all. Should have had his ship in order. You do insist in to chuntering on with your own agenda and ridiculous comparisons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Collymore was a very good player early in his career, but a very bad Villa player and a complete waste of our record fee. His record is very, very similar to Luke Moore's for Villa. What's more, I think it was always likely he was going to be - everyone knew he was trouble when he arrived and Brian Little reportedly didn't want him - if we're talking about owners being responsible for signings, I think this one's on Ellis and in a way that I'm not sure any of our other owners would consider. I accept that was down to Ellis, but I still say, he was more of a football man than many of our owners. He was worse in so many other ways too....but we was talking about the football side. Ron Atkinson used moan that he phoned BMH every day, to ask what was going on.....just saying he did have his finger on the pulse, in footballing terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 17/03/2020 at 21:35, HAL said: our current owners saved us literally from bankruptcy and the abyss they get alot of free passes in my eyes And i do get that, i really do.....and I am as grateful As the next man. but i am not taking for granted their money or the opportunity they have presented us. I am merely highlighting my anxiety to get self sufficient.....and to do that, we must be better at signing players who offer us REAL value. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2020 17 minutes ago, TRO said: And i do get that, i really do.....and I am as grateful As the next man. but i am not taking for granted their money or the opportunity they have presented us. I am merely highlighting my anxiety to get self sufficient.....and to do that, we must be better at signing players who offer us REAL value. Now that I can wholeheartedly agree with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, blandy said: Now that I can wholeheartedly agree with. Perhaps in the early posts on this, i never explained my underlying feeling, properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 18, 2020 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2020 31 minutes ago, TRO said: I am merely highlighting my anxiety to get self sufficient.....and to do that, we must be better at signing players who offer us REAL value. Which is exactly what this board are attempting and is indeed their stated plan. Surely if you agree then this is the board you've been waiting for? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 On 29/12/2019 at 19:51, VillaChris said: The board have done fine so far but then getting back into the premier league was always the easier part imo. Even when we were half broke we still had John Terry, Snodgrass and from last season's intake Tammy Abraham all practically walking to play for us, signings likes of Preston, Brentford and Cardiff could never make in a hundred years. We had lots of quality at championship level in the final third and that's enough to be in mix for promotion. Now the harder part is being creative and clever enough to attract good players in the premier league where the spotlight and pressure is so much stronger. We have hit some turbulance now. Many want the manager out, many don't think many of the signings are good enough for right now and it's hard to disagree with both opinions. Interesting to see what the board do and to me the next six months-year will hopefully set them apart from Lerner and Xia. We completely fell apart when the task was to replace O'Neill with another proven manager who wasn't years past his sell by date and together with the cost cutting beginning started our descent down the premier league. Then Xia was the typical kid in sweet shop owner. These guys have a plan and strategy but sometimes for the short term they need to be adjusted and we're at that stage. Short term focus needed to stay up and then we can regroup and build again with that template in the summer. Since 2015 Bournemouth, Brighton, Watford, Newcastle, Burnley, Wolves and Sheffield United have all been promoted and have or will stay up and establish themselves in the premier league so I don't buy it's some impossible task or we need to keep spending 100m + every transfer window to achieve that. We need to stop being obssessed with so many project players and sign some proven ones even if people turn their noses up at them. We will only have to spend 100m every window, if we keep getting so many players wrong..i agree with you, too many project players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 3 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Which is exactly what this board are attempting and is indeed their stated plan. Surely if you agree then this is the board you've been waiting for? I am not suggesting, i don't want them, that would be crazy.....but i would be happy if they asked questions of the relevant people in regards to the value they got from the summers business....so far not much improvement has been secured from them....may be a rethink of our policy going in to a next window......the midfield as just one example, requires answers to the thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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