Popular Post Mic09 Posted July 28, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2022 42 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Stupid decision. We shall see - maybe its a good decision. We just can't tell yet. Quote And now means McGinn will never get dropped Why is this? Henderson doesn't play every game? Quote we aren't signing another CM Why is this? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we magically have filled a void in midfield? Quote probably anyone else Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't sign anyone else? Quote May as well lock the summer transfer window thread Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't speculate on potential Villa related transfer? I'm sorry to single you out, but there is waaaaay too much over reaction on here. Let's see what the next few weeks/months bring before we get all crazy. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Stevo985 Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 hours ago, KMitch said: Statistically, he was our best player by a longshot... He's integral to our playstyle I like the guy, but this bit is nonsense. Sorry 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 minutes ago, Mic09 said: We shall see - maybe its a good decision. We just can't tell yet. Why is this? Henderson doesn't play every game? Why is this? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we magically have filled a void in midfield? Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't sign anyone else? Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't speculate on potential Villa related transfer? I'm sorry to single you out, but there is waaaaay too much over reaction on here. Let's see what the next few weeks/months bring before we get all crazy. Best post on the topic by a mile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2022 FWIW my take on it is this: Whilst SJM would not have been my first choice, it's hard to deny his work ethic. On his day he is excellent, but as others have pointed out, he is streaky. Perhaps SG wants the work ethic to be at the heart of the team, and I can see why. Maybe not leading the team by example in terms of technical ability like Jack did, but perhaps more in terms of effort. It's difficult to know without being around him whether he is a leader, but I am giving SG some lattitude here, as Stevie was absolutely a leader of men on the field, and he therefore should know what that takes. Plus, I remember when we gave Jack the captaincy it was kind of the making of him. He performed better, took more responsibility, and became the heart of the team. At the time Jack was probably the last person I would have selected, because of his lifestyle, but it worked out pretty well. Maybe this will lead to more consistency from SJM, particularly as he will be able to operate further forward, and with fewer defensive responsibilities now we have Kamara. I guess the jury is still out, but then I suppose it always is. We don't really know what cliques and groups exist within the squad. Maybe John is at the centre of the culture of the club. Good Luck, big John. Hope you prove us all wrong and lead us to greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom13 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: He's in the top 3 for me. He tops who scored ratings for us from last season and the piece the athletic did showing how absolutely critical he is to our ball progression and how good he is at it. He also is a 90 mins player very fit. He can take onboard specific tactical instructions from Gerrard well for each game. He should be able to relay these to teammates too as a bit of an on pitch coach. Also with a proper 6 it will help his overall game now he can get forward more. He does have weaknesses, he does get caught in possession a bit too much and his short passing isn't at a level it should be. However he's one of those key glue players in the team. Highly rated by coaches and underrated by fans. The Athletic? They don't half post some nonsense. He's nowhere near our top three players, he's too wasteful and has too many limitations. Kamara, Douglas Luiz, and Ramsey are all better than him just from our midfielders. I also reckon Sanson would prove to be if given a chance. It doesn't surprise me that Gerrard loves him, as as good as Gerrard was, he had a few similar limitations himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I like the guy, but this bit is nonsense. Sorry He’s certainly integral to how we play. Anyone can bang on about possession, but getting the ball forward is pretty key and McGinn is the central midfielder who does this the most. He’s also “statistically” the best player on WhoScored. So neither bit is nonsense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 I think people are reading way too much into this when it comes to McGinn being 'undroppable'. Gerrard wants him to ge an example and lead for sure, and obviously believes he has the capabilities to do that. But you look at other teams, and the club captain isn't always a shoe-in for a starting berth. Recent and current captains include Henderson, Fernandinho, Noble, Aubameyang... We had Jack as captain 2 seasons ago, and he is definitely not captain material. If McGinn isn't playing, Emi will assume the match day role. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I like the guy, but this bit is nonsense. Sorry He's a statisticians dream. He'll play an admittedly great key pass he'll draw a few fouls and he'll win a tackle or two. All heavily rewarded metrics on the stats. They'll ignore than fact between all these things and for large parts of the game he's absolutely invisible on and off the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: He's a statisticians dream. He'll play an admittedly great key pass he'll draw a few fouls and he'll win a tackle or two. All heavily rewarded metrics on the stats. They'll ignore than fact between all these things and for large parts of the game he's absolutely invisible on and off the ball. How do you know those things are heavily rewarded metrics? Curious - I have no idea how they’re calculated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: How do you know those things are heavily rewarded metrics? Curious - I have no idea how they’re calculated. Just from my curious interest in stats after a game. You can watch Luiz ( or someone else) have a game of their life. Absolutely run the show in the middle of the park and they won't break a 7. They didn't get a key pass or an assist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 minute ago, rodders0223 said: Just from my curious interest in stats after a game. You can watch Luiz ( or someone else) have a game of their life. Absolutely run the show in the middle of the park and they won't break a 7. They didn't get a key pass or an assist That sounds like absolute bollocks. Got an example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulMcGrath_5 Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Just now, bobzy said: That sounds like absolute bollocks. Got an example? It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, Mic09 said: We shall see - maybe its a good decision. We just can't tell yet. Why is this? Henderson doesn't play every game? Why is this? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we magically have filled a void in midfield? Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't sign anyone else? Why? Just because we took an armband off one person and gave it to another does that mean we can't speculate on potential Villa related transfer? I'm sorry to single you out, but there is waaaaay too much over reaction on here. Let's see what the next few weeks/months bring before we get all crazy. I'm 99% sure we aren't signing another first team player this summer, maybe at best we'll sign a squad filler, although if Luiz goes that position may change. We've already been waiting weeks/months to strengthen the first 11 and nothing has changed, the Sangare stuff is also a pipe dream too given there are no credible links to him whatsoever, I've felt we were pretty much done since mid-June and it seems like I was accurate. Henderson has only not played for Liverpool when he's been injured, he mostly plays, captains tend to that's why Maguire was never dropped last season despite his shaky form. McGinn will sadly play every game for us next season just like he has the last three Prem seasons, again I'm very confident about that. It's not overreaction, it's giving an honest opinion about something that I believe will backfire. Let's see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: He’s certainly integral to how we play. Anyone can bang on about possession, but getting the ball forward is pretty key and McGinn is the central midfielder who does this the most. He’s also “statistically” the best player on WhoScored. So neither bit is nonsense. Thing is I don't think the way we play is a good way to play or that it will be successful. I think we should move away from that style. Also don't think it's the best way to utilize the players we have. Imo we wan't Coutinho or Buendia to have the ball as much as possible in good areas rather than having Ings or Watkins trying to trap a long ball. Personal preference of course. McGinn is better at the latter and that's fine, but it doesn't suit the players we have IMO. Gerrard knows, football, sees them at practice, great player... Yeah I know, all valid points. Just stating why I would have done differently. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 9 minutes ago, bobzy said: How do you know those things are heavily rewarded metrics? Curious - I have no idea how they’re calculated. https://www.whoscored.com/Explanations Quote WhoScored Ratings Explained WhoScored.com Ratings are considered to be the most accurate, respected and well-known performance indicators in the world of football. Our ratings are currently used among media giants, bookmakers and football clubs. WhoScored.com Ratings are based on a unique, comprehensive statistical algorithm, calculated live during the game. There are over 200 raw statistics included in the calculation of a player'’s/team’'s rating, weighted according to their influence within the game. Every event of importance is taken into account, with a positive or negative effect on ratings weighted in relation to its area on the pitch and its outcome. An example: An attempted dribble (event) in the opposition’s final third (area of pitch) that is successful (outcome) will have a positive effect on a player's rating. Ratings that are flashing show that an event influencing said rating has just occurred. Green indicates an increase, while red indicates a decrease in rating. It's a long read. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, bobzy said: He’s certainly integral to how we play. Anyone can bang on about possession, but getting the ball forward is pretty key and McGinn is the central midfielder who does this the most. He’s also “statistically” the best player on WhoScored. So neither bit is nonsense. Statistically the best player makes no sense. Whoscored is a nice indicator, but it's not an intelligent analysis of stats. What statistics is he the best at? Someone integral to how we play means if you take them out we fall apart. I don't believe that's the case with McGinn. I also don't think the way we play has been particularly good of late, and our central midfield has been a big reason why. So being integral to that midfield isn't a great indicator of success Like I said I like the guy, he's a good player. I don't think he's a great player and if Kamara is the player we hope he will be then McGinn will be the weak link in our midfield Edited July 28, 2022 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2022 with all the talk of statistics, it's worth noting that a quick count of league game ratings and reactions threads from last season, mcginn was given 5 MOTMs by us on here. much more than i thought it would be i'm still not happy with the decision, but just thought i'd mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobsons Choice Posted July 28, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: I'm 99% sure we aren't signing another first team player this summer, maybe at best we'll sign a squad filler, although if Luiz goes that position may change. We've already been waiting weeks/months to strengthen the first 11 and nothing has changed, the Sangare stuff is also a pipe dream too given there are no credible links to him whatsoever, I've felt we were pretty much done since mid-June and it seems like I was accurate. Henderson has only not played for Liverpool when he's been injured, he mostly plays, captains tend to that's why Maguire was never dropped last season despite his shaky form. McGinn will sadly play every game for us next season just like he has the last three Prem seasons, again I'm very confident about that. It's not overreaction, it's giving an honest opinion about something that I believe will backfire. Let's see. With respect, unless you are in the know, regardless of what you say, you have no idea whether we are signing anyone else for the first team. You have made an assumption based on SJM getting the captaincy. That's assumption No. 1. Assumption No. 2 is that because he is club captain he will be playing every game, and won't be dropped due to form, which is possible, but not by all means certain. The third assumption is that he will be poor in the role. I'm not just getting at you here, but getting mad at this stage when all we have is assumptions is an over-reaction. If we're 5 games in, we've not bought anyone and McGinn has been poor, then it is rational, and I will agree with you. Until then, it just seems like a lot of folk are trying desperately to get angry about something. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said: It ain’t gone down well has it? Am I the only one that doesn’t really care? Captain McGinn has my support! I dont think the captaincy itself matters..its the fact McGinn will be undroppable when he is the weakest link in the starting team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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