the_eristic Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 All a ruse to get 70M off City next week. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Congrats John, make us proud. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Most tackles per game in the entire squad. Wins the most free kicks in the entire squad. Most successful dribbles in the entire squad. More key passes per game than everyone but Digne. And, additionally, against those who he is “up against” in a central midfield role: More assists More clearances per game More interceptions per game But apart from being the best central midfielder defensively and creatively, what did he really do for us last season? Clearances is also known as hoofing (sometimes hoofing is necessary others times it's giving the ball away). Ramsey scored more goals. The DM has to hold his position which means his tackles will be less than a box 2 box, or ball winning midfielder. Also the most important stat for a central midfielder is passing. What are his passing stats like while your at it? Comparing to Luiz, apart from tackles, fouls, and clearances their stats are very similar. Luiz fouls a.little less and his clearances are a little less, but clearances is a shit stat imo, especially in this case as Doug always tries to pass out first. This is backed by the passing which doug make a significant amount more passes (43 to 36 in Luiz' favour) and significant passing success rate (87 to 80 in luiz' favour). Goals and assists is 3 assists to 4 in favour of Mcginn, and 2 goals to 3 in favour of Mcginn, with Mcginn having played 372 minutes more football. Defensively Mcginn has more tackles but when a DM is expected to hold position whereas a B2B is expected to close down so this is expected. Defensively there is little to separate them. Passing is a clear winner, but Mcginn is playing higher up and going for risker passes as a result, so while Doug still have the edge, it's not a big as the stats suggest. However in a possession based system this syat has increased weight. Something about the defending that is interesting is both Mcginn and Luiz get dribbled past a good bit more than Ramsey. The story of our midfield is far more complex than x is the best. Ramsey for example scored 6 goals, 3 more that mcginn when he had only 1 shot per game average and over 600 minuted less game time, when Mcginn average 3 shots per game (those stupid long shots). Mcginn has easily the worst passing stats. The stats only tell half the story though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, bobzy said: Most tackles per game in the entire squad. Wins the most free kicks in the entire squad. Most successful dribbles in the entire squad. More key passes per game than everyone but Digne. And, additionally, against those who he is “up against” in a central midfield role: More assists More clearances per game More interceptions per game But apart from being the best central midfielder defensively and creatively, what did he really do for us last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 27, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted July 27, 2022 Not a great decision imo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshie2000 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 52 minutes ago, bobzy said: I thought you were “out”?! He's waiting for his Man City Scarf and Shirt to arrive 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshie2000 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 25 minutes ago, Tom13 said: No-one's saying he's not a 'decent player'. But we have better in his position. Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Philosopher said: Clearances is also known as hoofing (sometimes hoofing is necessary others times it's giving the ball away). Ramsey scored more goals. The DM has to hold his position which means his tackles will be less than a box 2 box, or ball winning midfielder. Also the most important stat for a central midfielder is passing. What are his passing stats like while your at it? Comparing to Luiz, apart from tackles, fouls, and clearances their stats are very similar. Luiz fouls a.little less and his clearances are a little less, but clearances is a shit stat imo, especially in this case as Doug always tries to pass out first. This is backed by the passing which doug make a significant amount more passes (43 to 36 in Luiz' favour) and significant passing success rate (87 to 80 in luiz' favour). Goals and assists is 3 assists to 4 in favour of Mcginn, and 2 goals to 3 in favour of Mcginn, with Mcginn having played 372 minutes more football. Defensively Mcginn has more tackles but when a DM is expected to hold position whereas a B2B is expected to close down so this is expected. Defensively there is little to separate them. Passing is a clear winner, but Mcginn is playing higher up and going for risker passes as a result, so while Doug still have the edge, it's not a big as the stats suggest. However in a possession based system this syat has increased weight. Something about the defending that is interesting is both Mcginn and Luiz get dribbled past a good bit more than Ramsey. The story of our midfield is far more complex than x is the best. Ramsey for example scored 6 goals, 3 more that mcginn when he had only 1 shot per game average and over 600 minuted less game time, when Mcginn average 3 shots per game (those stupid long shots). Mcginn has easily the worst passing stats. The stats only tell half the story though. Yes, McGinn (whilst trying riskier passes and longer range passes) has a worse passing %. As I say, he was better defensively and better creatively than his immediate rivals and, also, compared favourably if not the best in these areas in the entire squad. ”Average all season” “Just a well liked guy who puts himself about” Edited July 27, 2022 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Joshie2000 said: Who Things will be interesting this season. With Luiz likely to get more minutes as an 8, and Kamara coming in, with JJ having a full season under his belt, and big Tim expected to feature more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I like McGinn and to be honest I think he gets some unfair stick at times. I’ve always thought he seems like a great lad and a popular member of the dressing room, not sure he’s a true leader though but we don’t know what goes on in the training ground on a day to day basis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philosopher Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, bobzy said: Yes, McGinn (whilst trying riskier passes and longer range passes) has a worse passing %. As I say, he was better defensively and better creatively than his immediate rivals and, also, compared favourably if not the best in these areas in the entire squad. ”Average all season” “Just a well liked guy who puts himself about” He was still average. He a had 3 or good games all season. The rest was mediocre. The other thing to mention with the stats is sub appearances, being subbed, negatively affect the stats. McGinn didn't have one sub app and I'm sure he was subbed less than any other midfielder. Stats come with many caveats, which why I prefer to go by what is see, even though they can be a useful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshie2000 Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 minute ago, Philosopher said: Things will be interesting this season. With Luiz likely to get more minutes as an 8, and Kamara coming in, with JJ having a full season under his belt, and big Tim expected to feature more. If's, buts and Maybe's I think Kamara coming in will release both McGinn and Luiz, Ramsy I'm still juror out on him, but he's not long broke into team and think if we rotate correctly our midfield will be good and better than last season, I feel with what we have up to, we need to play 1 if Ings or Ollie with 2 out of Coutinho, Buendia and Bailey behind them. EMI Cash, Carlos, Mings, Digne Kamara Luiz/McGinn/JJ (2 out of 3) Bailey/Coutinho/Buendia (2 out of 3) Ings or Ollie Luiz/McGinn/JJ can drop back to help Kamara if and when needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KMitch Posted July 27, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted July 27, 2022 McGinn is a legend... He's one of my favorite all time Villans and is right up there with Mellberg, Laursen, & Milner for me. The disrespect he's gotten over the past year has been embarrassing by many on here. Statistically, he was our best player by a longshot... He's integral to our playstyle, especially with Kamara taking over the defensive duties and giving him license to roam forward next season. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMelvillan Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 I reckon 17 or 18 pl teams would happily take McGinn into their team. He is brill and I think we take his tackling/ tenacity for granted. He is not perfect but he has the desire to be so and is a true football man. If anyone knows what it takes to be a captain in the pl it is gerrard Delighted for him to be our captain and right behind him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, KMitch said: McGinn is a legend... He's one of my favorite all time Villans and is right up there with Mellberg, Laursen, & Milner for me. Jesus Christ... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 3 minutes ago, Mazrim said: Jesus Christ... I would count him higher than McGinn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 Is he also our current longest serving player ? (Not including Steer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Rodders said: the former. It's a sign that the favourite will remain undroppable regardless of form, and thus more likely to the detriment of the team Can that not be said about any player that is appointed captain? As I have asked on here many times, if not McGinn, then who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 36 minutes ago, KMitch said: McGinn is a legend... He's one of my favorite all time Villans and is right up there with Mellberg, Laursen, & Milner for me. The disrespect he's gotten over the past year has been embarrassing by many on here. Statistically, he was our best player by a longshot... He's integral to our playstyle, especially with Kamara taking over the defensive duties and giving him license to roam forward next season. This is where something like that shows it's flaws. The grades are based off of some very limited stats. Getting a decent number of tackles inflates that number quite a bit even if you are moving out of position to make those tackles. It doesn't track how often you stay with runners. How often you lose your man on the edge of the area how quickly you close to your man (as long as they don't shoot). Offensively he doesn't lose the ball that often and his long passes help boost his rating on that side of the ball. But he doesn't lose the ball much because he never comes to receive the ball. Which forces us to hoof it and causes us to lose the ball mroe often but that isn't attributed to mcginn or ramsey. He has good attacking output for his number of touches. 7 G+As in 35 games. But it doesn't factor in how many times his speculative long shots or long balls waste good positions or lose an advantage. Whoscored is an OK comparison if you don't have better context. But we do have better context, and the context says mcginn is one of the weakest links in our team and in my opinion is the weakest link. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotoMkali Posted July 27, 2022 Share Posted July 27, 2022 12 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said: Can that not be said about any player that is appointed captain? As I have asked on here many times, if not McGinn, then who? Maybe the guy who shouldn't have had his captaincy stripped in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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