samjp26 Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 I used to train BJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnie Posted February 12, 2014 Share Posted February 12, 2014 Done boxing on and off for years and have had a few amateur fights. Also the ultimate martial art Thai Boxing for a while has well. Thai Boxing and Ju Jitsu are easily the most effective. Had wing chun and kung fu lessons and found them laughably ineffective although I enjoyed the lessons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Evans Cormier is off, Rashad has hurt his leg. That leaves 170 as possibly the weakest PPV card ever, certainly in recent memory. The fight night this weekend is at least as strong IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted February 13, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13, 2014 Evans Cormier is off, Rashad has hurt his leg. That leaves 170 as possibly the weakest PPV card ever, certainly in recent memory. The fight night this weekend is at least as strong IMO. That PPV will tank at the boxoffice. Fight might be good though, here's hoping. And look at this. Serious hangtime from the headkick. (trying to ignore the very unnecessary hammerfist afterwards ) Skip to 1.30 if needed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUjs_EA-77g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Done boxing on and off for years and have had a few amateur fights. Also the ultimate martial art Thai Boxing for a while has well. Thai Boxing and Ju Jitsu are easily the most effective. Had wing chun and kung fu lessons and found them laughably ineffective although I enjoyed the lessons. All arts have the capability to be effective depending on how they are taught and the student who learns them. Certain arts appear to be more effective due to them been easier to learn. At some point in life all martial artists will have to compensate their reliance on speed, power and strength for something else a little more subtle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnie Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Done boxing on and off for years and have had a few amateur fights. Also the ultimate martial art Thai Boxing for a while has well. Thai Boxing and Ju Jitsu are easily the most effective. Had wing chun and kung fu lessons and found them laughably ineffective although I enjoyed the lessons. All arts have the capability to be effective depending on how they are taught and the student who learns them. Certain arts appear to be more effective due to them been easier to learn. At some point in life all martial artists will have to compensate their reliance on speed, power and strength for something else a little more subtle. Nah, using kung fu or wing chun in a street situation is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Still good to learn for sure but not sure how you can say all martial arts are as useful as each other. An experienced guy in kung fu would get absolutely demolished by an experienced guy in muay thai or ju Jitsu. Edited February 13, 2014 by donnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Evans Cormier is off, Rashad has hurt his leg. That leaves 170 as possibly the weakest PPV card ever, certainly in recent memory. The fight night this weekend is at least as strong IMO. Cormier is now fighting one of his former wrestling teammates, Pat Cummins. He got the fight after posting a thread on the other forum I post on. I've never seen him fight though and 10 days notice to fight someone like Cormier would be ridiculous no matter how good you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) Done boxing on and off for years and have had a few amateur fights. Also the ultimate martial art Thai Boxing for a while has well. Thai Boxing and Ju Jitsu are easily the most effective. Had wing chun and kung fu lessons and found them laughably ineffective although I enjoyed the lessons. All arts have the capability to be effective depending on how they are taught and the student who learns them. Certain arts appear to be more effective due to them been easier to learn. At some point in life all martial artists will have to compensate their reliance on speed, power and strength for something else a little more subtle. Nah, using kung fu or wing chun in a street situation is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Still good to learn for sure but not sure how you can say all martial arts are as useful as each other. An experienced guy in kung fu would get absolutely demolished by an experienced guy in muay thai or ju Jitsu. Sorry but you’re wrong. There are practical applications in all the arts and it is upto the individual to utilize them for their own purpose; if someone cannot understand that then it is not a problem with the art but the person who misunderstands. Case in point the JKD Bruce Lee defined was in direct response to the Wing Chun he learned from one of his principal teachers in Wing Chun, Master Wong Shun Leung. Master Wong’s style was a modified version of Wing Chun and he used it in allegedly over one hundred fights against a multitude of styles such as Judo, Boxing and many others. Back in the 1950-60’s this was tested in a cosmopolitan Hong Kong in bare-fisted fights known as Beimo. As I mentioned Lee adopted this form of Wing Chun and modified it further in JKD which I would go so far as to say is the pinnacle of street-fighting and has even made its foray into sports fighting with the likes of Erik Paulson and Burton Richardson training a who’s who a modern fighters from Randy Couture to Cub Swanson. It's okay to say Muay Thai is a great style and so too Jujutsu but to say they would smash all else is very naive. Both styles are defined by their weaknesses, for instance JJ requires a person to actually grab, hold or lock their opponent for it to work which is not exactly easier against a faster or more elusive fighter because they will receive some strikes quite probably before closing their distance to utilise a technique. Again Muay Thai is a great art but the style that is used for pro-fighting is lacking in hand techniques and therefore can be counted by a grappler or someone who is good at locks and takedowns. I once saw a great documentary about the greatest Special Forces unit in the world which I believe is in Taiwan where they regularly train in arts like Shuai jiao and Qin Na which can be both defined as forms of Kung Fu although they are heavier on locking on an opponent and dropping them fast to the ground for restraint. Again I've seen German tactical forces and special units train in Wing Chun and Shaun Rawcliffe who funnily enough teaches Wing Chun in Birmingham has travelled the world teaching his brand of WC to Special Forces teams and Security Forces. It's about what you know and how you utilise it, our understanding is limited by our experience which is why we should search out as much of the arts as we can and incorporate them to our repertoire if they are useful. The clearest insight leads me back to my previous post in that all arts have practicalities and once you experience them they may look different but they are fundamentally the same thing. Edited February 14, 2014 by Zhan_Zhuang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 There are lots of styles that have useful elements, the most important thing is that you have live practice with a non compliant partner to try and put your techniques into action. The whole "now grab my wrist" schtick that gets peddled is achingly terrible and the stereotypical TMA videos that show two indoctrinated believers doing very far fetched, choreographed routines make me sad. Sparring and rolling should be at least 25% of training IMV, ideally more than that. I have no idea why it seems to be only unarmed combat that people think you can master without doing lots of actual live practice. Can you imagine how shit you'd be at tennis if you just swung an imaginary racket at a theoretical ball? A kid I went to school with did / does wing chun and I remember being very confused when he said his sifu told him he shouldn't do any sparring outside of class because it would limit his mind in a real street fight. Anyway, Machida didn't exactly blow anyone's socks off last night. I think he'll probably have to beat Jacare to get the next title shot. Erick Silva was his usual awesome self. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Bruce Lee re-invented martial arts and cross-trained in most major arts; one of his great quotes is about sparring: "If you want to learn to swim, jump into the water. On dry land, no frame of mind is ever going to help you." At that time many martial artists were focused on form-training and compliant apllications; Lee attempted to challenge that notion. Of course there is a massive benefit to forms as it creates muscle memory, improves technique, speed, balance and focus but it is one part of many aspects of which free-sparring is of major importance. Re: Machida, I believe he was carrying a foot injury picked up prior to the fight and hence he was maybe a little tentative in his approach. However, he controlled the pace of the fight and basically did more than enough as the judges called it correctly at 50-45, 50-45 and 49-46. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyjsg Posted February 16, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2014 Also Mousasi is a very decent fighter (personally think he would trash most outside the top 10) and I think a one sided decision is still an excellent result. Carmont was better than I thought too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Machida hurt his foot in the 3rd round I think, he just didn't get to get his counter striking working on account of the lack of pressure. Mousasi is good, if he was a natural HW or even LHW he'd be pushing top 5 but MW is stacked and Machida in his right weight class is a bad ass. I think he'll (mousasi) fight Carmont next and I don't think its a good match up for him. Also I'd be hesitant to credit Bruce Lee for reinventing MAs. He popularised the idea of cross training and not being loyal to a style and just use what works but Barton-Wright was combining useful elements of traditional styles 80 years earlier. Either way he was probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donnie Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 All these myths about Bruce Lee having 100's of fights, where's the evidence?? No videos. Its utter nonsense. Some knowledge of martial arts is better then none. Of course MA like kung fu and wing chun are good to learn in terms of discipline, fitness, motivation, blah, blah but as an actually useful martial art in real life terms...no, no, no. A kung fu guy against a thai boxer for example- the muay thai guy is a better boxer. The muay thai guy woukd kick the kung fu guys legs in as well as kneeing the shit out of him.. tell me what exactly can a kung fu guy can do better then a muay thai guy in a real life situation?!?!? Nothing at all. And those self defence techniques involving a knife and a gun...dont get me started on them. Look at MMA- wrestling, ju Jitsu, Muay Thai and Boxing are the core martial arts a fighter needs. Kung fu and wing chun aint gonna help no one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Sambo, judo and TKD are also well represented in MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted February 16, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2014 Musoke just cant help being half decapitated in his wins apparently. That was close to being stopped. Shame he didn't attack more in the second when Andrade was clearly gassing. Anyway, win again for the Swede Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Also I'd be hesitant to credit Bruce Lee for reinventing MAs. He popularised the idea of cross training and not being loyal to a style and just use what works but Barton-Wright was combining useful elements of traditional styles 80 years earlier. Either way he was probably right. Of course I agree, but I was hinting at the modern era. All these myths about Bruce Lee having 100's of fights, where's the evidence?? No videos. Its utter nonsense. Some knowledge of martial arts is better then none. Of course MA like kung fu and wing chun are good to learn in terms of discipline, fitness, motivation, blah, blah but as an actually useful martial art in real life terms...no, no, no. A kung fu guy against a thai boxer for example- the muay thai guy is a better boxer. The muay thai guy woukd kick the kung fu guys legs in as well as kneeing the shit out of him.. tell me what exactly can a kung fu guy can do better then a muay thai guy in a real life situation?!?!? Nothing at all. And those self defence techniques involving a knife and a gun...dont get me started on them. Look at MMA- wrestling, ju Jitsu, Muay Thai and Boxing are the core martial arts a fighter needs. Kung fu and wing chun aint gonna help no one. No videos because people didn't carry smart phones on them back then; however there are many documented accounts from people who witnessed some of these fights. Plenty of anecdotal evidence is more than enough to justify that Lee had some successful fights. Lee before he was famous from making movies also trained many of the full-contact pro-fighters of that era including Chuck Norris, Mike Stone, Joe Lewis and many others all who credit him with improving their skills as competition fighters. I would find it extremely unusual for any pro-fighter to learn from someone who was not worthy of teaching or who they thought was not the 'real deal'. Another pro-fighter and full-contact champion Jim Kelly has maintained all-along that Lee was one of the toughest men on the planet. There are 14 episodes of the Bruce Lee story on Youtube featuring many UFC fighters who all regard Lee as an inspiration; people from Jon 'Bones' Jones to Frank Mir. It's worth having a look. Kung Fu v Muay Thai, is just too simplistic an argument to have because it is futile. All arts emanated from the same core art and both MT and Shaolin are derivative of Kalaripayatu (India). I agree that some forms of Kung Fu are lacking in sparring but others such as those from Shaolin are very good styles and from my perspective and experience they are some of the most physically impressive people on the planet. Equate that to a person who trians once or twice a week and we're talking about completely different levels; I think MT will give most average people the ability to fight and utilise skills easier and quicker than someone learning a form of Shaolin. The reason been is that many martial arts can take years to master because learning the foundation exercises takes a long time; it's just a different approach and much more methodical and thorough. On the MMA thing, Vitor Belfort is quite keen on the 'straight blast' which has taken out several opponents and it is a key concept in WC. Many of the current fighters had their foundation in Traditional Arts and harnessed them for the sport, it's just progression. Again Lyoto Machida is also quite traditional in his approach with his elusive, upright, wide stance and one-strike policy which is straight out of a point-fighting tournament. It's also not too disimilar to Shaolin Kung Fu as Karate and specifically Okinawan Karate was defined by fleeing monks from Shaolin who settled in Okinawa! Like i said earlier it's not much the style that is important but the understanding of the individual and how keen they are to master something that can be used as a weapon. Because there can be too much emphasis on Art rather than Martial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted February 22, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2014 Dan Hardy gets the color commentator job on UFC Fight Pass. We'll see I guess. John Gooden from CageWarriors does play by play. I think he's good enough. Andy Friedlander fills in for Buffer. Weird that they don't use Joe Martinez who I think has done a great job, both in the WEC and the UFC when filling in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Good wins for Pyle, Mcdonald and Ronda, and a squash for Cormier last night. As expected, not a particularly great night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Shame Maia couldn't finish in round 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted February 23, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted February 23, 2014 Ronda via knee to the liver. Not the sentence I was expecting to write down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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