hogso Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Weidman Belfort has got to be the next title fight, surely? Sometime in the summer I guess, but as far as I'm aware that's not been announced...? I see that Rousey's next defence against is official for Feb '14 against Sara McMann - I guess they couldn't wait for Cat Zingano to come back from injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 31, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2013 Im not so sure! I am a massive fan of Silva, and agree that he is the best of all time, but sometimes you bump into the wrong person at the wrong time. After the last fight Arte and myself had very differing opinions on who should and would have the better of the fights. I backed Silva (as he will always be the better fighter IMO) but it seems I was wrong. Weidman was just too well prepared and motivated to lose that. More importantly he had the exact skill set that Silva struggles with. Weidman is a good fighter, but Id say the division is a lot more open with him leading the pack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 31, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2013 That's a shame. Reading the analogy afterwards might help you understand why the argument for GOAT isn't about Silva, Fedor and Royce. Most influential maybe, but then that's a different discussion entirely. Royce is in the UFC's HOF and rightfully so, but even at his peak Rickson was far better than him. He got his ass kicked every day in training and considering he was a grappler, his skills in that area were not even at an world class level. Prime Royce loses to everyone in the top 20 at MW and WW right now and several of them could submit him if they chose to. That is obviously not true for Fedor or AS (or anyone else in the top 100 GOAT). As for "most, if not all" all time P4P rankings including him, that's probably because most all time p4p rankings are made on Bleacher report by 11 year olds who have no idea what they're even supposed to be basing it on. Nobody who has the slightest semblance of knowledge of MMA thinks Royce is anywhere near being the GOAT, at all. How old are you Arte? I dont mean this in any derogatory way, but is your early information based on research or did you watch Gracie in his pomp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 (edited) 'Nigel' I definitely see your point of view. I also think Silva has the better skills but you are probably correct that Weidmann had the focus and plan to beat him, much like Sonnen thought he did when the two met the first time. Weidman is lacking in speed, finesse and footwork by the looks of it so I don't think he'll hold the title for long at all. Surely has to be Belfort next, he deserves another title shot. And Machida is next in line...I personally would love to see him with the title. Edited December 31, 2013 by Zhan_Zhuang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 31, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2013 Belfort - Weidman is confirmed, in Las Vegas. just the date isn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 I didn't buy the UFC 1 PPV, put it that way. The first fight I saw Royce have was with Sakuraba (the first one) in the pride GP on VHS. I had no idea who either of them were but I was a 10 year old Ken Shamrock fan who wanted to see what the most dangerous man in the world had left WWF for. I've seen every one of his fights though (as well as a lot of footage of his BJJ matches) and had this discussion with people who have trained with him and his brothers. I am at a loss for words as to how Weidman is still being underrated here. Any timidity / hesitation in the first fight was down to the year off with injury he'd just had. I don't know why AS's mind games are only now being pilloried, they were key in several of his wins, including the one against the guy next in line. I love Vitor btw, he is a monster and has (like Weidman) been running through fighters at the top of arguably the toughest division in the sport. With Dolce managing his weight and TRT he has only lost to Jones at 205, but IMHO Weidman is better than Jones. I don't really understand the qualifier of "if Belfort gets in the UFC" though, his last 8 fights have been in the UFC. My next prediction is that if Weidman stops Belfort he won't get credit for his 3rd stoppage of an ATG, people will just say that the division is weak. Poor really bad person cain't get no respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Oh dear, Vegas means no TRT for Vitor. I think people are missing the point though, Weidman is a grappler first and foremost. The fact he KOed Silva is just a testament to his willingness / ability to learn. He's a better wrestler than GSP with a more dynamic submission attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted December 31, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2013 Weidman is a grappler first and foremost. An amazing one at that. The fact that he made it to the ADCC quarter finals with 1 official year of BJJ training screams TALENT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted December 31, 2013 Share Posted December 31, 2013 Yeah, QF in both 88 and Openweight. Both Galvao and Vinny were very complimentary after their matches as well IIRC. His fight against Maia was the best showcase though. 11 days notice to take on a fully prepared BJJ and ADCC champion and he out grappled him. I remember thinking nobody is good enough to beat someone like Maia without a full camp. Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted December 31, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2013 Bloody hell Arte, he is both a better wrestler that GSP, and better than Jones? He has got a long way to go before you can back up those claims, no matter how good you think he has started. Jones is now the best under the umbrella for me, with only Aldo carrying a good shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 (edited) You're only as good as your last fight. Seriously though, six weeks ago GSP got out wrestled and gifted a decision (IMO). Twelve weeks ago Jon Jones got outboxed (and taken down by a non wrestler, as well as hitting only one takedown of his own out of about 15 attempts) on the way to a razor thin victory (I scored it as a draw) against the (previous to that, not exactly awe inspiring) Gustaffson. He also got taken pretty deep and almost submitted by a MW. FWIW, as objectively as possible , based on arbitrary criteria that I am deciding on as I type this, the current top 3 pound for pound (IMO), are the little guys. 1. Aldo 2. Barao 3. DJ Edited January 1, 2014 by ArteSuave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted January 1, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2014 If Barao takes out (no judgeing involved) Cruz, I'd put him above Aldo......I think......dammit this is difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Weidman is part of the future of MMA and he dominated Silva in both fights. IMO he will be champion for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 1, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2014 If Barao takes out (no judgeing involved) Cruz, Thats a 'when' rather than an 'if'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted January 1, 2014 Share Posted January 1, 2014 Belfort will tear him apart with his standup techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted January 1, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 1, 2014 Im not sure he will tear him apart, it will be very close IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArteSuave Posted January 2, 2014 Share Posted January 2, 2014 Belfort will tear him apart with his standup techniques. What if he shoots in the first 30 seconds? IMO Belfort is, on current form, more of a finisher than Silva so this fight is actually more dangerous for Weidman. However in Vegas you aren't allowed hormonal enhancement so this will be Vitor with the edge taken off. 80% chance Weidman wins IMO. Out of interest, in the absolutely unthinkably unlikely event that the guy who just destroyed the GOAT (twice) manages to blindly fluke his way past the standup techniques and jam another win, will that be a credit to him or will Machida just Karate him into a living death with ease? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 (edited) What if Belfort connects with a strike as Weidman exposes his head through comitting the shoot or gets caught in a guillotine? I can what if too, but seriously Weidman would be mad to overcomit to a takedown straight away because it would be inexperienced of him hence I think that this gives Belfort the advantage due to his superior striking. Again this is my opinion...however if he beats Belfort then I may be impressed The fact that Silva hasn't been taking his fights seriously (in my view) disqualifies him from GOAT status; he advertised "knock me out" with his sloppy technique, prancing around and having his hands down in the first fight and then employed a terrible technique in the second fight to injure himself...hardly qualifies as been 'destroyed', imploding more like! Machida's takedown defence is rather good and his striking is even better so I wouldn't discount it. Edited January 3, 2014 by Zhan_Zhuang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumstopdogs Posted January 3, 2014 Share Posted January 3, 2014 I expect Weidman to beat Belfort. Belfort has been beaten several times and Weidman will be the quicker man and I'd expect him to dominate once he gets Belfort to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegis Posted January 4, 2014 VT Supporter Share Posted January 4, 2014 UFC Fight Night Singapore starts in 1 hour. Prelims are free on ufc.tv Nice starttime for a change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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