Israel, Palestine and Iran

[blandy]

Is it wrong to be impressed at the expertise required to do what has been done? Pagers is one thing, but if the PMRs were also done all at once, well, it’s incredibly “well” done.

This post does not endorse actually hurting people, just admiring the cunning and complexity, even if it’s bad.

[desensitized43]

58 minutes ago, _AA_786 said:

Firstly, apologies if I wasn't clear enough or gave the impression it was a reference to October 7th. It wasn't intended that way.

However, I made no assertion that anything was "Jews fault" or that the attack on October 7th was staged / allowed so i'm not sure why that response was prompted. Perhaps before making hasty assumptions it may be worthwhile to ask a few questions first, rather than responding in a sensitive manner - made particularly ironic when your username is "desensitized".

That aside... It would be naïve to ignore the countless examples of right leaning or hard-lined politicians who have sought to draw attention to security concerns, immigration, crime or other such topics when approaching re-election as a means of seeking support. History has shown that Netanyahu has repeatedly hung on to power or propped up support by this same approach so taking a view that he'll cling on longer by deploying a tactic that has worked before, can't be too hard to imagine surely?

“Another ‘terror incident’ will be allowed to happen”

It’s clear what you said mate. Don’t try and disown it now.

[tonyh29]

11 minutes ago, blandy said:

Is it wrong to be impressed at the expertise required to do what has been done? Pagers is one thing, but if the PMRs were also done all at once, well, it’s incredibly “well” done.

This post does not endorse actually hurting people, just admiring the cunning and complexity, even if it’s bad.

Tbf , that was my initial thought last night  , if I ever push ahead with my plans for world domination , I'm contracting most of the work out to the Israelis ... obviously I'll have to double cross them at some point , but I'll cross that bridge when i get to it 

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

I'd be worried if I were a pigeon

Israel won't mess with the pigeons. Way too tough 

[Nor-Cal Villan]

15 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Tbf , that was my initial thought last night  , if I ever push ahead with my plans for world domination , I'm contracting most of the work out to the Israelis ... obviously I'll have to double cross them at some point , but I'll cross that bridge when i get to it 

Staying on theme- you’ll never get to that bridge

[Milfner]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

I'd be worried if I were a pigeon

 

[magnkarl]

Hezbollah head telling everyone to throw away their mobile phones.

If anything it's made Hezbollah's communications a lot harder.

[bickster]

30 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Hezbollah head telling everyone to throw away their mobile phones.

If anything it's made Hezbollah's communications a lot harder.

More than just harder, Israel infiltrated Hezbollah's supply chain and took out both their primary and secondary communication methods, whilst also presumably taking out by either death of severe injury a large number of key personnel

Its a bit more than made communications harder. There are now massive trust issues with both technology and chain of command

[OutByEaster?]

There are stories of people unplugging their kitchen appliances and baby monitors and so on - it's a horrifyingly efficient and callous killing method that changes the way even those not targeted live their lives, as a disrupter it's extraordinarily effective. Many of the injured civilians were in cars with or around those whose devices exploded, thankfully none of them were on an airliner, the little girl that was killed heard her dads pager buzzing on the kitchen table and picked it up to go give it to him in the next room.

The digital version of the letter bomb I guess.

[Genie]

13 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

There are stories of people unplugging their kitchen appliances and baby monitors and so on - it's a horrifyingly efficient and callous killing method that changes the way even those not targeted live their lives, as a disrupter it's extraordinarily effective. Many of the injured civilians were in cars with or around those whose devices exploded, thankfully none of them were on an airliner, the little girl that was killed heard her dads pager buzzing on the kitchen table and picked it up to go give it to him in the next room.

The digital version of the letter bomb I guess.

It goes back even further than that, I assume the Israelis planting the risk/fear of using mobile phones causing the rush for pagers and radios which they had already planned to slip explosives into. It’s crazy how effective that plan was.

Edited Thursday at 07:09 by Genie

[Jareth]

Is Netanyahu that difficult for the US to rein in?

Edited Thursday at 07:24 by Jareth

[magnkarl]

33 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Is Netanyahu that difficult for the US to rein in?

They aren't going to reign him in on Hezbollah. Hezbollah are an even bigger threat to US allies in the region than Hamas. This operation doesn't reek of Netanyahu either way, if it was Benny's choice Beirut would be a crater. As far as Israeli (and to be fair even our own) operations go, this was a very targeted attack. While some civilians have been hit it's nowhere near what is happening in Gaza and probably wouldn't raise any eyebrows anywhere.

It's got Mossad prints all over it, they did similar things when hunting nazis after ww2.

Many people in Lebanon aren't exactly fans of Hezbollah who have been waging a brutal campaign against Christians for years in South Lebanon - you'd hope that if Israel can weaken Hezbollah enough then the Lebanese army can take back control of their own territory. Hezbollah aren't Lebanon, just like Hamas and PIJ aren't Palestine.

I'm wondering if the massive Hezbollah missile arsenal that people have been talking about for years is even as large as claimed, because what we've seen so far hasn't been anywhere near the scale reported.

Edited Thursday at 07:58 by magnkarl

[sidcow]

3 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Hezbollah head telling everyone to throw away their mobile phones.

If anything it's made Hezbollah's communications a lot harder.

It's kind of amazing they didn't consider a look at this presumably new batch of walkie talkies following the pager thing.  I'd have at least had a couple crushed at a safe distance to have a look inside.

[sidcow]

The question that needs to be asked is who will have won when the soldiers have gone from The Lebanon?

[fightoffyour]

15 hours ago, Xela said:

Pagers yesterday, walkie talkies today, what tomorrow? Tomy speak and spell machines?!

How long after the pagers exploded would it take for someone to think "You know what, I'm not sure about this new walkie talkie I just got last week?"

[Jareth]

I know the pager/walkie talkie thing is kind of thrilling, but it has killed innocent kids, and again is an illegal tactic. Perhaps because it only killed a handful of kids it's seen as a success - by that measure yes it's a resounding personal best for Israel. 

[bickster]

15 minutes ago, Jareth said:

and again is an illegal tactic.

Explain this bit, How is it illegal?

[Jareth]

12 minutes ago, bickster said:

Explain this bit, How is it illegal?

Quote

In the second world war, guerrilla forces scattered large quantities of booby-trapped objects likely to be attractive to civilians. The idea was to cause widescale and indiscriminate death. The Japanese manufactured a tobacco pipe with a charge detonated by a spring-loaded striker. The Italians produced a headset that blew up when it was plugged in. More than half a century later, a global treaty came into force which “prohibited in all circumstances to use booby-traps or other devices in the form of apparently harmless portable objects that are specifically designed and constructed to contain explosive material”. Has anyone told Israel and its jubilant supporters that, as Brian Finucane of the International Crisis Group points out, it is a signatory to the protocol?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/18/the-guardian-view-on-israels-booby-trap-war-and-unacceptable

The link to the global treaty doc is via the original article, embedded in 'global treaty'.

[_AA_786]

14 hours ago, desensitized43 said:

“Another ‘terror incident’ will be allowed to happen”

It’s clear what you said mate. Don’t try and disown it now.

For the purpose of raising public fear, a "Terror incident" could also be a potential event that gets thwarted - such as a failed attack on a diplomatic building, something at the borders, one madman with a knife...  **** some would even probably say a kid throwing rocks can be tagged as Terror related. It doesn't need to involve a sizeable loss of life. My point is that leaders like Netanyahu will use any story/data to paint a picture that their hard line approach is needed, to secure reelection.

Also it's not backing down and I'm not disowning anything... It's called having manners and apologising if you've unintentionally caused offence. 

For what it's worth, In my view;

• The creation of Israel was ill-thought out and poorly handled. The years of violence since are a direct result of that
• Any notions that either Palestinians should continue to be prisoners in a gated area or that Israel should be removed from existence, are wrong
• Where we are now, the only true way forward is a 2 state solution with certain key religious sites shared through DMZ type areas
• All life is valuable and all killings should be condemned
• Blowing up pagers or whatever, can be applauded from the perspective of being so sophisticated or film-like. But it should also be heavily condemned for the inhumane nature that it was seen as appropriate to set off multiple devices where you can't control the innocent people that would be injured or killed. That is truly despicable.
• I'd like to see Netanyahu and others (on Hamas also) being put in front of war crime tribunals but I suspect that will never happen
• I think the media is somewhat biased but there is a growing awareness from the wider public of the atrocities that are occurring and the need for some form of resolution
• Certain Arab leaders could have done so much more for peace over the years but their greed and self-centered focus has meant they see spending $400m on a painting or billions on golf/football ventures as a better use of their time/wealth. Whilst they try to portray themselves as being pious, my hope is that they will suffer for their neglectful inactivity

If you ever see me deviate from the above thoughts, then I've either changed my mind or would indeed be backing down. To be clear, I'm not currently doing either

[magnkarl]

50 minutes ago, Jareth said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/sep/18/the-guardian-view-on-israels-booby-trap-war-and-unacceptable

The link to the global treaty doc is via the original article, embedded in 'global treaty'.

In an ideal world these tenets are followed, in the reality of war they never are, at least not to the full extent.

Find me a war since the Geneva Convention was formalised and signed where you can't find any breaches, including our own. There's a big difference between Israel's inhumane bombing of Gaza and taking out Hezbollah operatives (and indirectly some people around them) by doing this. In a similar manner we bombed the hell out of Mosul when we were fighting ISIS, killing thousands of non-combatants. I think you need to be careful with how pious you're acting on this, because as it stands you're condemning Israel no matter what they do, even if it's a surgical strike they get criticised. People have said 'I'd be perfectly okay with Israel going after leaders and terrorists', but when they do the same people often chant 'genocide' before they even know what's going on.

Hezbollah have bombed Israel on and off for 30 years. Should Israel maybe keep employing Hezbollah's tactics? They're well within the rules of engagement to bomb back, but I think when you look at it, disabling Hezbollah's coms and leadership with walkie-talkies and devices such as this is a lot less gruesome to the people of Lebanon who are essentially being held hostage by Iranian backed Hezbollah. From my standpoint the only difference between the two here is that one side has spent billions on air defense while the other side employs human shields instead. Both sides need to grow up, and 'we' need to stop egging either side on by saying they're right, or have the right, to anything. It hasn't worked for going on 80 years. Both sides need to be held accountable.

Edited Thursday at 10:36 by magnkarl