Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, Jareth said: The guy should already be in prison for corruption - literally should be in prison. He has worked against a peace process his entire career - yet now we are to believe the hostages are more important to him than his life long goals? Israelis are protesting about this. What am I blind to hear? Because rescuing the hostages benefits him politically, making it more likely he stays out of prison. Even if he doesn’t care about them, the Israeli voters do. Why would you think otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, Jareth said: Jeez, far right government, dehumanising of a people, genocidal actions. You tell me. So Israel haven't performed rescue operations during other government periods? This narrative you're peddling really doesn't seem very well researched. May I suggest you band together with the other military experts of the Pro-Palestinian groupings and tell everyone how you'd avoid casualties while rescuing hostages held by a terrorist organisation in Gaza? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, Panto_Villan said: Because rescuing the hostages benefits him politically, making it more likely he stays out of prison. Even if he doesn’t care about them, the Israeli voters do. Why would you think otherwise? For the same reason all of the families think so and protest about it regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: So Israel haven't performed rescue operations during other government periods? This narrative you're peddling really doesn't seem very well researched. May I suggest you band together with the other military experts of the Pro-Palestinian groupings and tell everyone how you'd avoid casualties while rescuing hostages held by a terrorist organisation in Gaza? Which part is wrong? Far right government. A people dehumanised. Genocidal actions. Which bit is wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Jareth said: Which part is wrong? Far right government. A people dehumanised. Genocidal actions. Which bit is wrong? Both people are dehumanised, one by a right wing government, the other by a group who ran on an Israeli-eradication platform and got elected and by a growing number of Pro-Palestinian supporters abroad who hold Palestinians to the lowest of standards on everything, all the while demanding that Israel should do better than every other country in the world when it comes to military operations, democracy and defending itself from terrorist activity\invasion and in many cases clear genocidal intent from practically all of their neighbouring Arab countries from the get go. Edited June 9 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 4 minutes ago, Jareth said: For the same reason all of the families think so and protest about it regularly Maybe spell it out for all us idiots who think the families and Israeli voters would rather have the hostages home and well rather than in Hamas captivity? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Maybe spell it out for all us idiots who think the families and Israeli voters would rather have the hostages home and well rather than in Hamas captivity? Google it dude, it’s mainstream news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 10 minutes ago, Jareth said: Google it dude, it’s mainstream news I’m well aware of the protests. They want the hostages returned safely - so it’s clearly a politically popular cause in Israel. Yet you’re arguing the notoriously self-serving Netanyahu deliberately chose not to free them militarily even though the IDF could have done so. That’s why I’m asking you to spell out your logic, because there doesn’t seem to be an ounce of it in your position. You’re just implying that freeing the hostages would have been unpopular and refusing to explain why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: I’m well aware of the protests. They want the hostages returned safely - so it’s clearly a politically popular cause in Israel. Yet you’re arguing the notoriously self-serving Netanyahu deliberately chose not to free them militarily even though the IDF could have done so. That’s why I’m asking you to spell out your logic, because there doesn’t seem to be an ounce of it in your position. You’re just implying that freeing the hostages would have been unpopular and refusing to explain why. Ok then also look at why Netanyahu is not immediately implementing the US plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 1 hour ago, Jareth said: Ok then also look at why Netanyahu is not immediately implementing the US plan. Nah, I’m done. You’re still being evasive. At the end of the day if you believe the IDF have known where all the hostages are for months and are deliberately choosing not to free them, you’ll believe anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 5 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: Nah, I’m done. You’re still being evasive. At the end of the day if you believe the IDF have known where all the hostages are for months and are deliberately choosing not to free them, you’ll believe anything. That's not what I said? ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Quote Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's key rival, Benny Gantz, announced Sunday that he is quitting the war Cabinet after a postwar plan for the Palestinian enclave failed to materialize. Gantz' resignation comes amid global condemnation of the Palestinian civilian death toll in the war on Gaza that has piled domestic and international pressure on Netanyahu. Gantz announced his resignation in a televised event on Sunday. In May, Gantz demanded that Netanyahu agree to a day-after plan for the war in Gaza and threatened to withdraw his National Unity party from the coalition on June 8 unless the prime minister had a plan for the enclave’s postwar governance. Netanyahu missed the Gantz' deadline after distancing himself from President Joe Biden’s cease-fire deal, presented last month as an Israeli proposal. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/benny-gantz-quits-war-cabinet-rcna156159 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 hours ago, Jareth said: That's not what I said? ever? 22 hours ago, Jareth said: Is he wrong? And then you proceeded to defend said tweet for two hours, peddling some sort of idea that Israel knew where the hostages were all along and didn't want to rescue them because they rather bomb Palestinians. (weirdly they've hit locations of hostages with special ops squads plenty of times in the last few months after they've been through the area). To call it conjecture would be too mild. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bielesibub Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 hours ago, sne said: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/benny-gantz-quits-war-cabinet-rcna156159 This can't be good for Gaza, Israel or the Palestinians or Israelis. Will this mean a more right wing war cabinet? They already seem to be making some f'ing horrendous decisions, I dread to think how bad it can get now. It feels like the hunt for Hamas leaders and fighters wont stop until each and every Palestinian is in the ground. I get revenge but this really isn't going to stop anything, for each and every Palestinian killed there'll be another converted to the cause for the destruction of Israel. It's utterly depressing to watch, also utterly depressing seeing people trying to justify this by citing some ancient religious guff. “One who saves a life saves an entire world; one who destroys a life destroys an entire world.” . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) Here's one of the "civilians" that was killed when Israeli Special Forces freed 3 hostages the other day, Al Jazeera worker, 'journalist', and his father a doctor. One of the hostages died just hours before they were saved. jpost Quote However, further research has shown that Aljamal worked for the Palestine Chronicle, a pro-Hamas outlet led by ex-Al-Jazeera official Ramzi Baroud, operating under the auspices of the People Media Project, a 501(c)3 organization registered since 2012 in Olympia, Washington State, whose IRS filings were not found online. A description of Abdallah Aljamal on Al-Jazeera. Likewise, Aljamal was found to have written an opinion piece for Qatari-based news outlet, Al Jazeera, as well as serving as spokesperson for Hamas’s Ministry of Labor. It was initially unclear whether the hostages were being held at the Aljamals’ very home or in their vicinity, though Abdu’s tweet did mention an IDF incursion using a ladder into their window. When asked about the prospects of the Aljamal family hiding Israeli hostages in their home, Abdu claimed that “this should be addressed by Israeli officials,” claiming that at least seven other homes were documented as subject to the Israeli incursion. Need any more proof that Al Jazeera is essentially a terrorist propaganda channel, and that Qatar has no interest in this war stopping? Qatar's state owned media company has employees who hold Israeli hostages. Sadly for Al Jazeera, there's a thing called the Wayback Machine, a tool where you can see the past sessions of a webpage. He was deleted about 2 minutes after the news broke, like many others after they've been found out. Edited June 9 by magnkarl 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 hours ago, magnkarl said: And then you proceeded to defend said tweet for two hours, peddling some sort of idea that Israel knew where the hostages were all along and didn't want to rescue them because they rather bomb Palestinians. (weirdly they've hit locations of hostages with special ops squads plenty of times in the last few months after they've been through the area). To call it conjecture would be too mild. Nope I read that tweet to mean a deal could have been done already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 minutes ago, Jareth said: Nope I read that tweet to mean a deal could have been done already So the IDF negotiates peace deals? Come on man. The tweet doesn't say what you're claiming it is. The army doesn't negotiate for a country, diplomats do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 18 minutes ago, magnkarl said: So the IDF negotiates peace deals? Come on man. The tweet doesn't say what you're claiming it is. The army doesn't negotiate for a country, diplomats do. That’s how I read it and if you read my subsequent replies that is what they are implying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: That’s how I read it and if you read my subsequent replies that is what they are implying. The tweet is conspiratory BS. There's several hundred thousand people protesting for the release of the hostages in Israel. You seem to think that it would be unpopular to get them released and that the IDF don't defend their own population because then they can't bomb Gaza. Whatever it takes for you to demonise Israel, I guess. There's plenty of stuff to be angry at Israel for, you don't need to invent narratives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 29 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The tweet is conspiratory BS. There's several hundred thousand people protesting for the release of the hostages in Israel. You seem to think that it would be unpopular to get them released and that the IDF don't defend their own population because then they can't bomb Gaza. Whatever it takes for you to demonise Israel, I guess. There's plenty of stuff to be angry at Israel for, you don't need to invent narratives. Nope, you’re putting words into my mouth. My beef is Netanyahu for reasons previously stated. No narrative other than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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