Jareth Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 (edited) Cameras, phone cameras make all the difference. We, the west have been pretty consistent with our cruelty over decades, just now its recorded. Possibly all this witnessing has happened when it's Israel's turn to be genocidal - if so then that's just sheer bad luck on their part. Bad luck Israel. Edited June 8 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 Is he wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 4 hostages released - 200 odd killed - can only be Edited June 9 by Jareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 7 hours ago, Jareth said: Is he wrong? Of course it’s wrong. The hostages still being in captivity is one of the biggest issues in Israeli politics and one of the main reasons why the current government has lost so much popularity. The idea that Netanyahu of all people is throwing away his political future to give Israel an excuse to bomb Palestinian civilians is absolutely insane (particularly when any critic of Israel will gladly tell you they don’t actually need an excuse to do that). There’s plenty of evidence that Israel has committed serious war crimes in Gaza. There’s really no need to make up ludicrous scenarios if you want to criticise them for killing Palestinians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 5 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: Of course it’s wrong. The hostages still being in captivity is one of the biggest issues in Israeli politics and one of the main reasons why the current government has lost so much popularity. The idea that Netanyahu of all people is throwing away his political future to give Israel an excuse to bomb Palestinian civilians is absolutely insane (particularly when any critic of Israel will gladly tell you they don’t actually need an excuse to do that). There’s plenty of evidence that Israel has committed serious war crimes in Gaza. There’s really no need to make up ludicrous scenarios if you want to criticise them for killing Palestinians. The hostages are not Netanyahu’s priority. Never have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jareth said: Cameras, phone cameras make all the difference. We, the west have been pretty consistent with our cruelty over decades, just now its recorded. Possibly all this witnessing has happened when it's Israel's turn to be genocidal - if so then that's just sheer bad luck on their part. Bad luck Israel. Again you seem totally unable to see other perspectives. There's plenty of footage of Arabs in RSF committing crimes that makes Israels clear breaches of war crimes statutes look like child's play. Yet only 250 people show up to protest that our country is keeping tight ties with a country that supplies the RSF. I just don't think it fits into a certain segment of society's idea of 'the opresser' and 'the oppressed', how could the people that are supposed to be the victim of colonialism suddenly be the people who are the actual perpetrators (RSF, Houthis, Yemen, Iran, Arabs) and to a lesser extent Palestinians. People like to whitewash all the nasty things that Palestinians have done throughout time, they brush off all the terror, the attacks, the general invasions of Israel and how they're at least a fair part of the reason why there's never a peace deal. Unless Palestine's supporters can start expressing that they expect movement towards peace rather than intifada and the erasure of Israel this cycle of wars every 5 years won't stop. It's far too well aligned with the politics of Iran\Qatar\Russia and the Arab block in the UN for it to stop when there's so much political currency to be garnered by prodding at their attack dog in Palestine to attack Israel for the umpteenth time since its re-inception. Edited June 9 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 12 minutes ago, Jareth said: The hostages are not Netanyahu’s priority. Never have been. No, they’re not. But that’s a billion miles away from anything implied in that tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 8 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: No, they’re not. But that’s a billion miles away from anything implied in that tweet. The tweet implies genocide? The ICJ ordered Israel to stop genociding. What’s guy Pearce saying otherwise? They literally just evaporated a school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 24 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Again you seem totally unable to see other perspectives. It's true, I for some reason can't get my head around a scenario where 4 lives = 200 executions. It's almost as though some lives are less valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jareth said: It's true, I for some reason can't get my head around a scenario where 4 lives = 200 executions. It's almost as though some lives are less valuable. Ah, are we calling it executions now? I'm sure the British military would love some input in how to avoid collateral damage when trying to rescue hostages from a terrorist group in the middle of one of the most densely packed areas in the world where a majority of them support said terrorist group in polls, since you seem to be an expert. The lives of Palestinian civilians are made a cheap currency for the group they support by them using them as human shields and ammunition in their PR war, yet it is the people trying to save hostages taken by the terrorist group that is to blame when they're saving hostages and people sadly die? Israel doesn't save hostages = They have no motivation to save hostages, boo! Israel saves hostages = They only did that so they could execute civilians, boo! Standards. Edited June 9 by magnkarl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Just now, magnkarl said: Ah, are we calling it executions now? I'm sure the British military would love some input in how to avoid collateral damage when trying to rescue hostages from a terrorist group in the middle of one of the most densely packed areas in the world where a majority of them support said terrorist group in polls, since you seem to be an expert. The British military have never been directed by a far right government. And thank god for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: The British military have never been directed by a far right government. And thank god for that. Yet the British military has caused civilian casualties on a much larger scale than Israel when fighting wars - strange that, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 11 hours ago, chrisp65 said: For what it’s worth, I think it’s a mistake to repeatedly say Palestinians are guilty. I also believe it’s a mistake to try and think what others are thinking. So the Palestinians are guiltless? Do explain. I think both parties are guilty of this never ending spiral. I also think people not holding Palestinians accountable for anything keeps the spiral going. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 27 minutes ago, Jareth said: The tweet implies genocide? The ICJ ordered Israel to stop genociding. What’s guy Pearce saying otherwise? They literally just evaporated a school. When people say Netanyahu’s priority isn’t the safety of the hostages, it’s because there was a discussion after Oct 7 about whether Israel would go hard after Hamas despite the risks for the hostages that would entail, or negotiate to try and get them released safely. Obviously he went for the former (not really surprising given the scale of Oct 7th). That absolutely does not mean he wouldn’t take the opportunity to militarily rescue the hostages given the chance. The idea he knew exactly where the hostages were but deliberately chose not to rescue them just so he had an excuse to bomb Palestinians (despite the huge domestic political costs) is Nazi moon base levels of conspiracy thinking. I mean, of course they didn’t know where all the hostages were. They didn’t know thousands of Hamas fighters were going to flood across the border but they’re omniscient enough to know where 250+ hostages were in the chaos that followed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 3 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Yet the British military has caused civilian casualties on a much larger scale than Israel when fighting wars - strange that, isn't it? Compare it to the UK all you want, it is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 2 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: When people say Netanyahu’s priority isn’t the safety of the hostages, it’s because there was a discussion after Oct 7 about whether Israel would go hard after Hamas despite the risks for the hostages that would entail, or negotiate to try and get them released safely. Obviously he went for the former (not really surprising given the scale of Oct 7th). That absolutely does not mean he wouldn’t take the opportunity to militarily rescue the hostages given the chance. The idea he knew exactly where the hostages were but deliberately chose not to rescue them just so he had an excuse to bomb Palestinians (despite the huge domestic political costs) is Nazi moon base levels of conspiracy thinking. I mean, of course they didn’t know where all the hostages were. They didn’t know thousands of Hamas fighters were going to flood across the border but they’re omniscient enough to know where 250+ hostages were in the chaos that followed? Netanyahu, in his own words, in the recent past has ensured that money flows to Hamas because Hamas = one state solution. The guy is a sociopath, yet you feel he cares about the hostages? He has no empathy whatsoever, only concern for himself. Israel needs him gone before anything can change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 5 minutes ago, Jareth said: Compare it to the UK all you want, it is not the same. What would you like it compared to, so that your line of reasoning on military rescue operations doesn't get challenged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Jareth said: Netanyahu, in his own words, in the recent past has ensured that money flows to Hamas because Hamas = one state solution. The guy is a sociopath, yet you feel he cares about the hostages? He has no empathy whatsoever, only concern for himself. Israel needs him gone before anything can change. If he has concern only for himself, why would he make himself spectacularly unpopular at home (likely ending his political career, which will get him jailed for fraud) by deliberately refusing to rescue the hostages just to give Israel an excuse to bomb Palestinians? An excuse they clearly don’t need anyway? Why would he not just rescue the hostages and reap the domestic political rewards, then continue to bomb Gaza anyway as part of the war against Hamas? There’s no point even pointing this stuff out, is there? You’re willing to uncritically believe anything negative about Israel, even if it contradicts all the other negative things about Israel that you already believe. Edited June 9 by Panto_Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 17 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: If he has concern only for himself, why would he make himself spectacularly unpopular at home (likely ending his political career, which will get him jailed for fraud) by deliberately refusing to rescue the hostages just to give Israel an excuse to bomb Palestinians? An excuse they clearly don’t need anyway? Why would he not just rescue the hostages and reap the domestic political rewards, then continue to bomb Gaza anyway as part of the war against Hamas? There’s no point even pointing this stuff out, is there? You’re willing to uncritically believe anything negative about Israel, even if it contradicts all the other negative things about Israel that you already believe. The guy should already be in prison for corruption - literally should be in prison. He has worked against a peace process his entire career - yet now we are to believe the hostages are more important to him than his life long goals? Israelis are protesting about this. What am I blind to here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 23 minutes ago, magnkarl said: What would you like it compared to, so that your line of reasoning on military rescue operations doesn't get challenged? Jeez, far right government, dehumanising of a people, genocidal actions. You tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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