Popular Post Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2023 8 hours ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: If 96% of the deaths in this conflict have been Palestinian maybe it shows that the Palestinians need to change tactics because its doing more damage to itself than to Israel. What do you suggest? That they just lay down and be trampled on? Their land is being stolen, their homes are being confiscated, their rights are being denied, their food is being rationed, medicines, water, education is being denied. It’s been decades, way before even Hamas. And the whole world has been watching it happen because they’re protected by the US. when they try to do things the right way, you have the tories changing the law to prevent it, they change the definition of anti-senitism to include any criticism of Israel policy. They outlaw BDS. Now, they’re trying to outlaw the Palestinian flag! They have their so-called friends ‘normalising’ relations with Israel. Another step closer to exctinction. I bet my last penny this was a response to that **** clearing in the woods MBS cosying up to the Israeli government. This was likely to put a spanner in the works. He’s had to come out in support of Palestine to prevent a civil uprising, and that ought to put an end to any ‘normalisation’. So what they did, probably will achieve what they set out to do - to stay relevant. It’s horrible. The sooner both sides are forced to negotiate, the better. But It’s in Israel’s (ergo the US) best interest to delay peace for as long as possible to grab as much land as possible in the meantime. So it’s the only damn tactic they have left. Death’s make news, land grabbing and rights violations don’t. love to hear your thoughts on what tactic you would suggest? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Thug said: love to hear your thoughts on what tactic you would suggest? And on the other side of the coin? The Hamas infiltration on Oct. 7th was the 2nd largest (on absolute numbers) terrorist attack in history. I don't want to hear "it's revenge against the oppressor" or "it was 50 years in the waiting" or "Israel is currently doing the same thing". Whichever "side" you are on (I put that word in quotations because, contrary to current belief, it is possible to not be strictly pro or anti for one side but just want all people to live in peace and safety) or whatever the reaction has been, there is absolutely no excuse for the actions on Oct. 7th. If there was no threat of events like that happening, there would be no border fence to begin with. Genuinely interested to hear what people think Israel should have done in response? Neutralize the infiltrated terrorists and seal up the border until the terrorists regroup and do this again? Say "you got us" and just pack up and leave? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 If the British Government can negotiate with the IRA and form the good friday agreement, I dont see why the Israeli government couldnt have done the same with Hamas. Its terrible what Hamas did in Israel and its equally terrible what the Israelis are doing in Gaza. Both war crimes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 18 minutes ago, a-k said: . I don't want to hear "it's revenge against the oppressor" or "it was 50 years in the waiting" or "Israel is currently doing the same thing Well there endeth the conversation then. I don’t want to hear about Steve poking you in the eye everyday… just tell me why you punched him. What else is he supposed to do now other than to go punch everyone in your street?! You don’t think he’s got the right now to go punch everyone in your street?? It’s 100% your fault. 109% your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, a-k said: The Hamas infiltration on Oct. 7th was the 2nd largest (on absolute numbers) terrorist attack in history. https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/terrorism/#:~:text=The United Nations Security Council,provoke a state of terror Wrong. Israel committed the biggest act of terror in history even more recently. 3 million people. Pay close attention to the points below, in particular points 8 and 9. You said it’s ok by the way. Quote Article 1 states that terrorist offenses are offences under national law, which, given their nature or context, may seriously damage a country or an international organisation and committed with the aim of: seriously intimidating a population, or unduly compelling a Government or international organisation to perform or abstain from performing any act, or seriously destabilising or destroying the fundamental political, constitutional, economic or social structures of a country or an international organisation, shall be deemed to be terrorist offences: attacks upon a person’s life which may cause death; attacks upon the physical integrity of a person; kidnapping or hostage taking; causing extensive destruction to a Government or public facility, a transport system, an infrastructure facility, including an information system, a fixed platform located on the continental shelf, a public place or private property likely to endanger human life or result in major economic loss; seizure of aircraft, ships or other means of public or goods transport; manufacture, possession, acquisition, transport, supply or use of weapons, explosives or of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons, as well as research into, and development of, biological and chemical weapons release of dangerous substances, or causing fires, floods or explosions the effect of which is to endanger human life; interfering with or disrupting the supply of water, power or any other fundamental natural resource the effect of which is to endanger human life; threatening to commit any of the acts listed in (a) to (h). I don’t even need to link the articles where they’ve done this do I? The biggest act of terrorism in history is being carried out by Israel as we speak. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Thug said: What do you suggest? love to hear your thoughts on what tactic you would suggest? Well............NOT murdering foreign nationals at a peace festival would be my first suggestion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 11 minutes ago, Thug said: https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/terrorism/#:~:text=The United Nations Security Council,provoke a state of terror Wrong. Israel committed the biggest act of terror in history even more recently. 3 million people. Pay close attention to the points below, in particular points 8 and 9. You said it’s ok by the way. I don’t even need to link the articles where they’ve done this do I? The biggest act of terrorism in history is being carried out by Israel as we speak. Just as a strange point of interest in that list - point 9 is a really weird one - threatening to commit a terrorist act is a terrorist act. Also why are the points 1-9 but then it refers to a-h at the bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 50 minutes ago, PaulC said: If the British Government can negotiate with the IRA and form the good friday agreement, I dont see why the Israeli government couldnt have done the same with Hamas. Its terrible what Hamas did in Israel and its equally terrible what the Israelis are doing in Gaza. Both war crimes. Because it needs both sides wanting to negotiate or at least realising that they could gain something from negotiating. But what happens when neither sides wants to negotiate at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 16 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: Well............NOT murdering foreign nationals at a peace festival would be my first suggestion. And there you go ladies and gentlemen. His actual answer reads ‘actually you’re right, there’s nothing else left to do.’ Point proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Thug said: And there you go ladies and gentlemen. His actual answer reads ‘actually you’re right, there’s nothing else left to do.’ Point proven. In order to negotiate Hamas would need to renounce its charter, including the bits about wanting to kill Jews because you know, they’re Jews. The sooner Hamas and Israel’s increasingly unpopular government go, and leave the more sensible PLO/Fatah and centre-left parties in Knesset to negotiate the sooner we can have an end to this. Defending Hamas is about as fruitful as defending Ben Gvir. Edited October 11, 2023 by magnkarl 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Thug said: 1. What an utterly disgusting post. 2. What you’re saying is that when (if) israel murder thousands of people it’s ALL because of what Hamas did?! 3. By your rationale, the Israeli civilians that were murdered was a 100% responsibility of the Israeli government, after all its their constant provocation that led to the massacre?? 4. And to bring comparisons to **** Hitler?! Are you out of your mind? 5. This is a thought disease spreading through the world to ignorant people who buy all the shit fed to them by the crap they watch on TV. 6. How on earth can you sit there and actually believe that people getting bombed is justified? 7. Your bias is as obvious........ And it’s disgusting. 8. Both sides need to stop the violence. 9. Grow up. 1. That's you opinion. You are free to express it. But you seemingly ignore the numerous times I express support for the Palestinians. 2. Let me be clear. I am saying that Hamas have given Israel the anger and justification to potentially kill thousands in the next week. 3. The Israeli dead were killed by Hamas. Israel has played its part in this whole situation. So has the British Empire, Iran, Syria, Egypt and many more parties. 4. I stand by my comparison in the context that it was written. Sometimes the leadership of a group gets to a point where its damaging its own people more than the enemy. Hitler in 1945 is the most famous example. 5. I have never thought of myself as ignorant. I am a keen reader of history and I believe I put my viewpoint across in a polite way and with rationale. Ignorant people tend to dismiss others views out of hand and resort to insults. 6. I am a realist. Sometimes it's necessary to fight. We don't live in the 1500 when armies would meet at an arranged date and location to resolve matters. 7. I assume I am no longer on your Xmas card list? 8. Agreed. 9. Mrs Lifeboats? Is that you? I am happy to discuss this further IF you moderate your tone and cease the insults. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, magnkarl said: In order to negotiate Hamas would need to renounce its charter, including the bits about wanting to kill Jews because you know, they’re Jews. The sooner Hamas and Israel’s increasingly unpopular government go, and leave the more sensible PLO/Fatah and centre-left parties in Knesset negotiate the sooner we can have an end to this. Defending Hamas is about as fruitful as defending Ben Gvir. I’m not defending Hamas. I’ve said already that it was an awful act. there’s posters on here suggesting it’s 100% ok for israel to bomb the whole of palestine, and this is 100% the fault of Hamas. I absolutely condemn Hamas’ actions. These guys will never criticise Israel, or admit that both sides are at fault. That’s the issue here. Buzz words, and unilateral application of terror winds me up. This is an extremely complex situation with multiple nuances both historical and contemporary, but a couple of posters just regurgitating emotionless inhuman garbage about further loss of life being justified - it’s disgusting. The rockets should stop, and the bombs should stop. What kind of normal human being welcomes the loss of further life? ‘100% Hamas fault for any Palestinian loss of life now’. No blame AT ALL for the people throwing bombs at random? **** off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, Thug said: And there you go ladies and gentlemen. His actual answer reads ‘actually you’re right, there’s nothing else left to do.’ Point proven. OK........here's a suggestion. Hamas should revoke their charter to accept that Israel exists and not justify the murder of Jews. They should develop a charter that doesn't read like it was written by a madman in 1500. Public opinion for the Palestian cause was steadily growing. They should have continued to build that public opinion by engaging with the western public. They should limit military action to military targets. They should capitalise upon people like Banksy who owns the "Walled Off Hotel" over there. They should kill less civilians. I also have a suggestion for you - Maybe you should respect my position. I can support the Palestinians without supporting Hamas. It's no different to many of my other views. I can support the concept a united Ireland without supporting the IRA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 12 minutes ago, Mandy Lifeboats said: 1. That's you opinion. You are free to express it. But you seemingly ignore the numerous times I express support for the Palestinians. 2. Let me be clear. I am saying that Hamas have given Israel the anger and justification to potentially kill thousands in the next week. 3. The Israeli dead were killed by Hamas. Israel has played its part in this whole situation. So has the British Empire, Iran, Syria, Egypt and many more parties. 4. I stand by my comparison in the context that it was written. Sometimes the leadership of a group gets to a point where its damaging its own people more than the enemy. Hitler in 1945 is the most famous example. 5. I have never thought of myself as ignorant. I am a keen reader of history and I believe I put my viewpoint across in a polite way and with rationale. Ignorant people tend to dismiss others views out of hand and resort to insults. 6. I am a realist. Sometimes it's necessary to fight. We don't live in the 1500 when armies would meet at an arranged date and location to resolve matters. 7. I assume I am no longer on your Xmas card list? 8. Agreed. 9. Mrs Lifeboats? Is that you? I am happy to discuss this further IF you moderate your tone and cease the insults. 2. Is completely wrong. Their is no justification. if you re word it as ‘Israel will use this as an excuse to…’ then I would agree. Ok, this is a very emotional topic for me. I agree to moderate my tone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Best outcome is for Israel to wipe out Hamas, without wiping out a shit load of civilians. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post magnkarl Posted October 11, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Thug said: I’m not defending Hamas. I’ve said already that it was an awful act. there’s posters on here suggesting it’s 100% ok for israel to bomb the whole of palestine, and this is 100% the fault of Hamas. I absolutely condemn Hamas’ actions. These guys will never criticise Israel, or admit that both sides are at fault. That’s the issue here. Buzz words, and unilateral application of terror winds me up. This is an extremely complex situation with multiple nuances both historical and contemporary, but a couple of posters just regurgitating emotionless inhuman garbage about further loss of life being justified - it’s disgusting. The rockets should stop, and the bombs should stop. What kind of normal human being welcomes the loss of further life? ‘100% Hamas fault for any Palestinian loss of life now’. No blame AT ALL for the people throwing bombs at random? **** off. Hamas have given Israel an excuse to bomb Gaza to smithereens, it’s not right or just. This conflict is tit for tat and have always been. The latest iteration started when Hamas decided to go all ISIS on civilians around Gaza. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Just now, magnkarl said: Hamas have given Israel an excuse to bomb Gaza to smithereens, it’s not right or just. This conflict is tit for tat and have always been. The latest iteration started when Hamas decided to go all ISIS on civilians around Gaza. Ok, THIS I agree with 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thug said: 1. There’s posters on here suggesting it’s 100% ok for israel to bomb the whole of palestine, and this is 100% the fault of Hamas. 2. These guys will never criticise Israel, or admit that both sides are at fault. That’s the issue here. 3. **** off. 1. I haven't read that. I have read polite and rationale discussion. 2. Where do you want me to start? There is fault on both sides. Israel has committed more than its fair share of atrocities. 3. You are clearly passionate about this topic. But posts like this don't help your message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 @Mandy Lifeboats Lol I just got number 9! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, Thug said: 2. Is completely wrong. Their is no justification. if you re word it as ‘Israel will use this as an excuse to…’ then I would agree. Ok, this is a very emotional topic for me. I agree to moderate my tone. 2. I agree. It's given Israel the excuse. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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