Israel, Palestine and Iran

[chrisp65]

12 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Do you not think these people are critisised? 

As far as I can see, there's several press projects and digging groups founded just to do exactly what you describe which is why these MPs have been found out.

I wish our MPs had issues with being bought by WWF or Mossy Earth rather than foreign players, big oil, big pharma or their buddy who sells wall-paper, but it appears that our political system is totally saturated by MPs receiving 'gifts' from people wanting to pressure them in some shape or another. My view on it is that I don't think Israel has a faster horse in that game than most other states, and that Iran and Russia's axis likes to put these 'hints' out there when the reality is that both those countries likely spend a lot more trying to pressure MPs than Israel does.

 

I think they are criticised, yes. It was ml1dch that appeared to think this was something knew and one way traffic / hypocrisy.

[magnkarl]

8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

I think they are criticised, yes. It was ml1dch that appeared to think this was something knew and one way traffic / hypocrisy.

I guess he's referring to the people who are now critising these MPs (rightly) for taking whatever off an Israeli, who thought it was perfectly reasonable for 'the other wing' to have their headline acts have a talkshow on Iranian or Russian propaganda TV. 

Both things are bad, but I think one is worse, much due to the fact that we're close to foreign agent territory with at least two of them (GG and CW).

[omariqy]

 

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, omariqy said:

 

Is he claiming that the guy on the ground is shot, or what?

To me there's absolutely no proof in this video that the guy on the floor is shot. No recoil, no movement of the body, no muzzle flash, no pistol or machine-gun smoke. For anyone who's ever touched a firearm this is a dud, it sounds like a gun that fires rubber bullets or a car backfiring somewhere to the right of the camera.

It's on par for Lowkey's usual content though. He's become a full time propagandist, there's a lot you can catch IDF in - but this really doesn't look like the gotcha moment that he thinks all his posts are. Give it some hours and he'll backtrack profusely, get served a community notice and go back to looking online for other videos he can make up falsehoods about.

Edited February 5 by magnkarl

[sne]

Nothing new, just more of it.

Quote

Rising violence against Palestinians by Israeli forces in the West Bank, reports Amnesty

Amnesty International's investigation into four specific cases of lethal force resulted in the execution of 20 Palestinians, seven of whom were children. The organization's researchers conducted interviews with witnesses, including first responders and local residents, and analyzed related images and videos, revealing a grim picture of the situation.

The research also found instances where Israeli forces attacked individuals and paramedics trying to assist injured Palestinians and used excessive force to disperse Gaza-related solidarity protests. Erika Guevara-Rosas, the director of Amnesty International's research and advocacy, criticized Israel's actions as a blatant disregard for Palestinian lives, labeling the killings as violations of human rights agreements and part of an oppressive system against Palestinians.

Amnesty calls for international legal intervention, noting the reluctance of Israeli authorities and their legal system to hold perpetrators accountable. It suggests that the International Criminal Court should investigate these actions as potential war crimes, stressing the importance of upholding international justice standards.

The report details a specific raid on the Nur Shams refugee camp in Tulkarem, where Israeli forces killed 13 people and arrested 15, highlighting the use of disproportionate force. The case of 15-year-old Taha Mahamid, shot dead by Israeli forces, is mentioned as a stark example of unnecessary lethal force.

Furthermore, Amnesty addresses the issue of Palestinian protesters facing undue violence, emphasizing the regular occurrence of Gaza-related solidarity protests and the lethal response of Israeli forces. The organization also criticizes the blockade of medical care to injured protesters, sharing eyewitness accounts of attacks on ambulances and medical personnel.

https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/world-int/24868-rising-violence-against-palestinians-by-israeli-forces-in-the-west-bank-reports-amnesty.html

[omariqy]

11 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Is he claiming that the guy on the ground is shot, or what?

To me there's absolutely no proof in this video that the guy on the floor is shot. No recoil, no movement of the body, no muzzle flash, no pistol or machine-gun smoke. For anyone who's ever touched a firearm this is a dud, it sounds like a gun that fires rubber bullets or a car backfiring somewhere to the right of the camera.

It's on par for Lowkey's usual content though. He's become a full time propagandist, there's a lot you can catch IDF in - but this really doesn't look like the gotcha moment that he thinks all his posts are.

 

[omariqy]

1 minute ago, omariqy said:

 

Looks like he was trying to stab the solider 

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Looks like he was trying to stab the solider 

That scenario would have played out the same in almost any country in the world.

Try and stab a soldier or police office holding a gun and you’ll be shot. 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, omariqy said:

Looks like he was trying to stab the solider 

So yet again Lowkey is posting bollocks

[omariqy]

truly breaks my heart. The aftermath of what we have seen has yet to be seen in terms of the trauma and impact on remaining people. They’ve either been left decimated, without limbs or with mental trauma that will live with them forever. 

[regular_john]

11 hours ago, omariqy said:

 

Yet more Islamist propaganda and lies. The 14 year old had just tried to stab one of the border guards. He got shot because, oddly enough, that is what happens when you try to stab a member of the military to death. The full video shows the whole event very clearly.

[Jareth]

 

[Chindie]

As it's Led by Donkeys, there'll be no children in Gaza by the end of the month.

[bobzy]

12 hours ago, regular_john said:

Yet more Islamist propaganda and lies. The 14 year old had just tried to stab one of the border guards. He got shot because, oddly enough, that is what happens when you try to stab a member of the military to death. The full video shows the whole event very clearly.

That's "fair enough"; but you'd hope there'd be a better way of dealing with a 14 year old with a knife than just killing him.

[regular_john]

36 minutes ago, bobzy said:

That's "fair enough"; but you'd hope there'd be a better way of dealing with a 14 year old with a knife than just killing him.

You would hope so, however he was a 14 year old who repeatedly and violently stabbed a border guard with homicidal intent in the context of a conflict in which Hamas have strapped suicide bombs to children and had them detonate themselves.

 

How would you, as a guard in the same situation, manage the problem differently?

 

Would you take the risk of approaching him to restrain/arrest him, knowing that he could try and stab again or could detonate a suicide vest?

 

Or do you pull the trigger?

 

This is yet another death that is squarely the fault of Hamas, as are the many thousands of deaths on and since October 7th.

Edited February 6 by regular_john

[bobzy]

25 minutes ago, regular_john said:

You would hope so, however he was a 14 year old who repeatedly and violently stabbed a border guard with homicidal intent in the context of a conflict in which Hamas have strapped suicide bombs to children and had them detonate themselves.

 

How would you, as a guard in the same situation, manage the problem differently?

 

Would you take the risk of approaching him to restrain/arrest him, knowing that he could try and stab again or could detonate a suicide vest?

 

Or do you pull the trigger?

 

This is yet another death that is squarely the fault of Hamas, as are the many thousands of deaths on and since October 7th.

I’m not a trained member of any sort of armed unit, so I don’t know what measures they’d take to preserve life.

It seems preserving life is not an aim here though, sadly.

[omariqy]

Also the question of why a 14 year old who has probably been 3 wars already was driven to do that. Much like the victims of what’s happening now and the knock on effect of seeing your entire family murdered/tortured/starved to death will have. Much like why these troubles started long before Hamas was a thing. That’s the real question. We all know the answer. People are not born to just go out and stab someone. Root causes are never explored. 

[LondonLax]

49 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Also the question of why a 14 year old who has probably been 3 wars already was driven to do that. Much like the victims of what’s happening now and the knock on effect of seeing your entire family murdered/tortured/starved to death will have. Much like why these troubles started long before Hamas was a thing. That’s the real question. We all know the answer. People are not born to just go out and stab someone. Root causes are never explored. 

It’s the same point I made above about the Jewish Israeli who has grown up with people threatening to kill them and regularly having to rush to bomb shelters. 

We can’t put our own experiences on these people and then judge them when they don’t live up to our own expectations. 

[sne]

Quote

Gaza doctor describes ordeal of detention

A Palestinian doctor says Israeli forces in Gaza detained him when they overran a hospital and subjected him to abuse during 45 days of captivity including sleep deprivation and constant shackling and blindfolding before releasing him last week.

Doctor Said Abdulrahman Maarouf was working at al-Ahli al-Arab hospital in Gaza City when it was surrounded by Israeli forces in December.

He described having his hands cuffed, his legs shackled and his eyes masked for the nearly seven-week duration of his imprisonment.

 

He said he was told to sleep in places that were covered with pebbles without a mattress, pillow or cover and with loud music blaring.

The Israeli military said it treats detainees in accordance with international law and its protocols are to treat them with dignity. "Incidents in which the guidelines were not followed will be looked into," it said in a statement.

It has previously denied targeting or abusing civilians and accuses Hamas of using hospitals for military operations, which Hamas denies.

 

"The torture was very severe in Israeli prison. I am a doctor. My weight was 87 kilograms. I lost, in 45 days, more than 25 kilograms. I lost my balance. I lost focus. I lost all feeling," he said.

"However you describe the suffering and the insults in prison you can never know the reality unless you lived through it," he added.

Maarouf said he has no idea where he was detained as he was blindfolded throughout his detention, and he was not sure if he was held inside or outside Gaza. He was dropped at the Kerem Shalom crossing and was picked up by the Red Cross.

Maarouf believes he was one of more than 100 prisoners being held in the same place. "Each one of us was wishing for death... wishing to die from the severity of the suffering," he said.

He said being told to try to sleep lying on pebbles was the worst part of his experience.

"I am a paediatrician working for 23 years in this field. I did not commit any humanitarian crime. My weapon is my pen, my notebook and my stethoscope. I didn't leave the place. I was treating children inside hospitals," he said.

"When we were called to where the tanks were I thought we'd be there a few hours and leave. I thought if they took me and my colleagues they would treat us well because we are doctors and did not commit any crime," he said.

Back in Gaza, he is working again in a children's ward, a stethoscope around his neck, the sound of crying infants and the concerned whispers of parents around him once more.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-doctor-describes-ordeal-detention-2024-02-04/

[omariqy]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

It’s the same point I made above about the Jewish Israeli who has grown up with people threatening to kill them and regularly having to rush to bomb shelters. 

We can’t put our own experiences on these people and then judge them when they don’t live up to our own expectations. 

Yeah I made a similar point earlier on the thread. I understand why Jewish people all round the world need something like Israel has safe haven given what their race has experienced throughout their history. Unfortunately the implementation of that and it being at the expense of the freedom and safety of others is what’s at the heart of this.