tonyh29 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Pure speculation, I wonder if given the surrounding circumstances, someone has **** up their safety checks and procedures because they were already spooked by the risk of what was going on around them. An accident, but with ‘the war’ as the backdrop. the phone video footage i saw last night showed what looked like an engine fire in the sky before the plane went down .. I'd have thought an engine fire would result in shutting down the fuel to the engine and a reasonably safe attempt at a landing ( though the one that crashed on the m1 years back , they shut down the wrong engine so it's not always as easy as it sounds !!) the indications from the debris field are that the plane crashed vertically at speed into the ground , which is quite often an indication of a bomb explosion !!! Anecdotal time again , but going back to my visit i was strongly advised not to take any internal flights in Iran , mainly as sanctions means their planes are old and not well serviced but also because they use a lot of drones and radar jamming techniques around sensitive areas , appreciate this was an international flight but i wonder if it hit a drone ? guess we may find out soon enough UIA appear to be invited to the black box party even if Boeing aren't 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Today I learned that Nikki Haley is on the Board of Directors at Boeing, in case anyone wondered which side their bread's buttered. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 48 minutes ago, Czechlad said: Numerous photos of the plane crash make it look like there are bullet holes littered on the engine. I mean it could be a weird occurrence, but it looks like the plane was shot at. Looked on fire in the sky so definitely not more common technical fault such as an engine stall. Very unlikely a plane would take off on fire, strikes me as foul play,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 7 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Today I learned that Nikki Haley is on the Board of Directors at Boeing, in case anyone wondered which side their bread's buttered. That's this Nikki Haley, demonstrating both her crassness and her absolute lack of understanding of Iran in just 16 words: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Looked on fire in the sky so definitely not more common technical fault such as an engine stall. Very unlikely a plane would take off on fire, strikes me as foul play,. One of the vids I saw looked like it was in a glide w/ something burning for something like 30-60s and then dived a little, some brightening (likely explosion of whatever was on fire) and then straight dive into ground, kaboom. It's not resolved as was only a phone vid, but a little surprising that no radio got out Hopefully, it's just corporate cheap skating either at the airline or manufacturer level. The Ukrainians have already come out and said it was a brand new 2016 model with an impeccable service record, so over to you Boeing. Of course Iranian military incompetence or CIA etc. shenanigans cannot not be ruled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2020 38 minutes ago, villakram said: Of course Iranian military incompetence or CIA etc. shenanigans cannot not be ruled out. My money would be on the former. Trump needs the Ukraine Govt onside right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) Breathtaking vision by Trump. The aim to make some kind of deal with Iran to make the world a more safe and peaceful place should be applauded. Perhaps together they could aim for some kind of deal on Iran's development of nuclear capabilities, or is that a bit far fetched? Edited January 8, 2020 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 hour ago, bickster said: My money would be on the former. Trump needs the Ukraine Govt onside right now Ya, but CIA etc would not do this directly, much more likely they'd encourage/support MEK or one of the other domestic Iranian terrorist groups who would act in a quasi-independent manner thereafter. Anyway, 'tis all speculation right now. I imagine more footage/data will emerge in relatively short order given this is Boeing's top seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2020 At the moment everyone wants to say the plane crashed in an accident. Accident works for everyone, it keeps America happy, it keeps Iran happy, it stops Ukrainians falling out with America which keeps Putin quiet and it means there's a whole lot less likelihood of a war, so I say let's call it an accident, sweep up the mess, not ask too many questions and move along please. Nothing to see here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: At the moment everyone wants to say the plane crashed in an accident. Accident works for everyone, it keeps America happy, it keeps Iran happy, it stops Ukrainians falling out with America which keeps Putin quiet and it means there's a whole lot less likelihood of a war, so I say let's call it an accident, sweep up the mess, not ask too many questions and move along please. Nothing to see here. Hmmm, not entirely sure. Boeing need it to be a very specific type of accident utterly out of the control of Boeing, along the lines of shot down / drone strike / suicidal pilot and co pilot. Which isn’t really an accident. I don’t think Boeing want it to be any sort of technical failure accident. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Anyone who's seen drama documentary Hot Shots with Charlie Sheen will remember what lengths competing military companies goes through to get a contract with the US army. Could be Lockheed Martin throwing a spanner in the engine for Boeing. Is it safe? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted January 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2020 12 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Hmmm, not entirely sure. Boeing need it to be a very specific type of accident utterly out of the control of Boeing, along the lines of shot down / drone strike / suicidal pilot and co pilot. Which isn’t really an accident. I don’t think Boeing want it to be any sort of technical failure accident. I personally think the most likely thing that's happened is that it's been shot down by some sort of US anti-missile system - whoever decided to keep launching commercial airliners out of Iran last night probably needs to give their head a wobble. I can't buy the massive coincidence of a random accident so close to the timing of the missile launches and that feeling was compounded when the Ukraine declared it definitely an accident an hour after the crash - beating the previous record for the fastest air accident investigation by about two months. The US don't want to have shot it down because, well it's bad, Iran don't want for it to have been shot down because it's a big blemish on their "clean" revenge, Ukraine don't want it to have been shot down because they don't want their population developing anti-American feeling with Putin at the door. That it's been shot down by the US is speculation, but no matter what's actually happened, I'm struggling to believe an accident and I can't find any scenario that comes out better for anyone than an accident. I suspect Boeing will be encouraged to write this one off - if only they had some sort of serious charge hanging over them that could be reduced to ease that pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: I personally think the most likely thing that's happened is that it's been shot down by some sort of US anti-missile system - whoever decided to keep launching commercial airliners out of Iran last night probably needs to give their head a wobble. I can't buy the massive coincidence of a random accident so close to the timing of the missile launches and that feeling was compounded when the Ukraine declared it definitely an accident an hour after the crash - beating the previous record for the fastest air accident investigation by about two months. The US don't want to have shot it down because, well it's bad, Iran don't want for it to have been shot down because it's a big blemish on their "clean" revenge, Ukraine don't want it to have been shot down because they don't want their population developing anti-American feeling with Putin at the door. That it's been shot down by the US is speculation, but no matter what's actually happened, I'm struggling to believe an accident and I can't find any scenario that comes out better for anyone than an accident. I suspect Boeing will be encouraged to write this one off - if only they had some sort of serious charge hanging over them that could be reduced to ease that pain. It didn't make it more than a few miles from Tehran airport. Struggling to see how the Americans managed that from Iraq, or why? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, Awol said: It didn't make it more than a few miles from Tehran airport. Struggling to see how the Americans managed that from Iraq, or why? As a cease and desist warning using proxy groups or agents inside Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, sne said: As a cease and desist warning using proxy groups or agents inside Iran? I think that was the point of killing of Soleimani. But on a purely practical level, how? A team of guys tooling around Tehran with a stinger missile in the boot? A bit fantastical, don't you think? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, Awol said: I think that was the point of killing of Soleimani. But on a purely practical level, how? A team of guys tooling around Tehran with a stinger missile in the boot? A bit fantastical, don't you think? Certainly not the most likely scenario. But you don't think the US has the capabilities or that they are funding and aiding groups inside Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Just now, sne said: Certainly not the most likely scenario. But you don't think the US has the capabilities or that they are funding and aiding groups inside Iran? I think some folks see the evil hand of Uncle Sam in everything, like a reverse McCarthyism. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Awol said: I think some folks see the evil hand of Uncle Sam in everything, like a reverse McCarthyism. Well they have shown a blatant disregard for human lives that are not American for quite a few decades now so it's hardly that surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted January 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, sne said: Well they have shown a blatant disregard for human lives that are not American for quite a few decades now so it's hardly that surprising. Iran says Hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, bickster said: Iran says Hi Oh absolutely. Israel, Saudi, China, Russia....... And all the old colonial countries, and before that... Edited January 8, 2020 by sne 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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