Israel, Palestine and Iran (and Lebanon)

[Jareth]

Not 100% trying to shit on the win here, it's bitter sweet getting the no.1 bad guy at the cost of mass, ridiculous, violent child murder. I will ask though, once the fist pumps recede, is this vengeance completed? Is it time to leave Gaza alone? Surely the answer is yes. 

[regular_john]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Not 100% trying to shit on the win here, it's bitter sweet getting the no.1 bad guy at the cost of mass, ridiculous, violent child murder. I will ask though, once the fist pumps recede, is this vengeance completed? Is it time to leave Gaza alone? Surely the answer is yes. 

100+ hostages still being held in awful conditions

 

One of whom is a baby

[Jareth]

7 minutes ago, regular_john said:

100+ hostages still being held in awful conditions

 

One of whom is a baby

Is their release achieved by more airstrikes? I mean no.1 terrorist eliminated, many others too, but hostages still hostage. 

[regular_john]

3 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Is their release achieved by more airstrikes? I mean no.1 terrorist eliminated, many others too, but hostages still hostage. 

The only thing that has resulted in hostage release thus far has been military action.

 

There was a prisoner swap in the early stages of the conflict but that unfortunately involved releasing many convicted terrorists, which I doubt Israel will do again.

 

I don't think Israel have any choice but to continue military action in the circumstances. No other country on Earth would be expected to abandon 100+ citizens to terrorists.

[villa89]

19 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Is it time to leave Gaza alone? Surely the answer is yes. 

They've now killed the entire hamas leadership group (as far as I know) so the assumption would be that the new leaders will agree a peace deal, swap the hostages for a ceasefire and enjoy not getting killed by Israel for a few years. 

[Jareth]

6 minutes ago, regular_john said:

The only thing that has resulted in hostage release thus far has been military action.

 

There was a prisoner swap in the early stages of the conflict but that unfortunately involved releasing many convicted terrorists, which I doubt Israel will do again.

 

I don't think Israel have any choice but to continue military action in the circumstances. No other country on Earth would be expected to abandon 100+ citizens to terrorists.

Quote

As of 28 August 2024, 117 hostages had been returned alive to Israel, with 105 being released in a prisoner exchange deal, four released by Hamas unilaterally and eight rescued by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel–Hamas_war_hostage_crisis#:~:text=Holding hostages%3A&text=As of 28 August 2024,Israel Defense Forces (IDF).

If you want the hostages released, as we all do, then military action does not appear to be the way to get them released alive. 

[Awol]

 

41 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Not 100% trying to shit on the win here, it's bitter sweet getting the no.1 bad guy at the cost of mass, ridiculous, violent child murder. I will ask though, once the fist pumps recede, is this vengeance completed? Is it time to leave Gaza alone? Surely the answer is yes. 

The only realistic way forward is an Arab coalition, probably fronted by the UAE, to go in and provide the framework for governance and rebuilding.

Hamas murdered all the alternative Palestinian political actors in Gaza long ago, and when Hamas is either disarmed and surrendered or dead, someone will have to provide organised political authority.

None of Israel, the international community, or the Palestinians want that to be provided by Tel Aviv, but Israel is the only party that can deliver the conditions in which an Arab coalition can safely take up that responsibility. 

If Israel simply left Gaza now (aside from leaving their citizens hostage as already mentioned) it would create a power vacuum which could only be filled by the remnants of Hamas. No one in charge of any regional country (except Iran, Syria, and Yemen) wants that to happen.

[desensitized43]

47 minutes ago, Jareth said:

Not 100% trying to shit on the win here, it's bitter sweet getting the no.1 bad guy at the cost of mass, ridiculous, violent child murder. I will ask though, once the fist pumps recede, is this vengeance completed? Is it time to leave Gaza alone? Surely the answer is yes. 

I guess that’ll depend on whether what remains of hamas and hezbollah still have the means and the will to fight on. In the case of hamas whether they’re willing to hand over whatever hostages are still living at this point. Once this is over the talks on a 2 state solution have to progress again to prevent this kind of bloodletting repeating.

For the moment though, I think we can all take a moment celebrate one less evil bastard in the world.

[Jareth]

15 minutes ago, Awol said:

 

The only realistic way forward is an Arab coalition, probably fronted by the UAE, to go in and provide the framework for governance and rebuilding.

Hamas murdered all the alternative Palestinian political actors in Gaza long ago, and when Hamas is either disarmed and surrendered or dead, someone will have to provide organised political authority.

None of Israel, the international community, or the Palestinians want that to be provided by Tel Aviv, but Israel is the only party that can deliver the conditions in which an Arab coalition can safely take up that responsibility. 

If Israel simply left Gaza now (aside from leaving their citizens hostage as already mentioned) it would create a power vacuum which could only be filled by the remnants of Hamas. No one in charge of any regional country (except Iran, Syria, and Yemen) wants that to happen.

100% with you on that until - "None of Israel, the international community, or the Palestinians want that to be provided by Tel Aviv"

 

Quote

 

ONE-THIRD of the members of parliament from Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, including a Cabinet minister, will attend an event on “Preparing to Resettle Gaza”, according to media reports from the country.

The Times of Israel quoted a poster advertising the October 21 event as reading: “A year after the pogroms [of October 7], we will stand together – Likud members, regional branch chairs, MKs and ministers – to jointly declare that ‘Gaza is ours. Forever’."

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24660133.israeli-minister-likud-mps-attend-resettling-gaza-event/

[Awol]

@Jareth the opinion of 1/3 of one party in a coalition government doesn’t represent the state, in fairness

[Jareth]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

@Jareth the opinion of 1/3 of one party in a coalition government doesn’t represent the state, in fairness

I agree. But that's 1/3 of Netanyahu's Likud right? And the far-right coalition members will be against the idea? What number does those in favour make? 

[regular_john]

1 hour ago, desensitized43 said:

Once this is over the talks on a 2 state solution have to progress again to prevent this kind of bloodletting repeating.

Sadly, and it is very sad, I think that the controversial 'R' word will prohibit any two state solution for the foreseeable future.

 

The two state solution has been spoken of for most of the last 70 odd years but only ever seems to be desired by one side - not a great starting point for negotiation.

[meregreen]

There will not be peace until Iran is dealt with. They fund most of the terrorist groups  in the area. 

[ender4]

19 minutes ago, regular_john said:

Sadly, and it is very sad, I think that the controversial 'R' word will prohibit any two state solution for the foreseeable future.

Sorry, what’s the R word?

[regular_john]

2 minutes ago, ender4 said:

Sorry, what’s the R word?

Rhymes with resmidgen

[The Fun Factory]

3 hours ago, Jareth said:

Israeli war goal achieved. Damage the terrorist's morale. Now, what next? 

Get rid of the rest of those pesky arabs and build more houses.

[chrisp65]

Good that one of the maniac cult leaders has gone. If we can knock out the one on the other team as well there could be the beginnings of progress. Once the leaders realise terror will get them potted, the terror might subside a little.

I know that’s a radical plan, but 70 years of revenge for the revenge for the revenge doesn’t appear to be working. 

So, maybe kill less people, but make them important, and make it pretty much guaranteed that violent leaders will meet violent deaths.

In that leaders are rarely babies or 16 year old girls at pop concerts, or refugee grandmothers it could be worth a go, for their sake.

[Jareth]

14 minutes ago, regular_john said:

Rhymes with resmidgen

westmidlands?

[regular_john]

7 minutes ago, Jareth said:

westmidlands?

red pigeon

[Jareth]

2 minutes ago, regular_john said:

red pigeon

zionism?